Wheel suggestions?

[jdd]

Got four full seasons on my trek, and when cleaning up the rear rim the other day noticed two small cracks at one of the spoke nipples:

Since the rims/wheels are that old (Bonty race lite), instead of just getting a new rim, I'd like to treat myself to some new wheels. (The bonty hubs were never reviewed very well, either.)

My riding is exclusively "training", no racing, so some something on the stronger (less maintenance) side. I don't need the taller aero rims, tho bladed spokes would be a given. Darker colors would be best for hub/spokes/rim--light is too hard to clean. (And I'm 82kg, kind of mid-weight.)

I've been browsing online reviews and also seeing what wiggle has. These look about right, tho both are at the top end of what 'd want to spend:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/DT_Swiss_RR1850_Road_Bike_Wheelset/5360029603/

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Mavic_Ksyrium_SL_Clincher_Road_Bike_Wheelset/5360046147/

Comments on these, or alternatives that anyone could suggest?

Secondarily, it'd be nice to get a cassette that was on the quiet side--suggestions for that, or what to avoid?

TIA,

John D.

on edit: Those rims might seem like overkill for training..., but I do ride a lot, about 4500km this year, so I guess what I need is training sturdiness, along with the best performance that can come along with that.

 

[Edogawakikkoman]

For my wear and tear wheels I got a pair of Aksiums.
Cheap as chips and strong.

My Bonty's are almost 6 years old now and a little wobbly but still look OK.
I use them as spare wear and tear wheels now...

 

[FarEast]

Same happened to me last week....only 3 areas had cracks around the spokes and one was almost pulled through.

http://positivo-espresso.blogspot.com/2009/12/santa-comes-early.html

My LBS are very very helpful and want repeat sales rather than the quick cash appraoch. The guys in there listened to what I needed which is identical to your needs.... strong stiff wheels for training that I can maintain.

The suggest two wheel sets, the Mavic Askium and the Shimano Ultegra SL 6800. Both around the same price mark with the Shimano's being just over 150grams lighter.

In the end I decided to go with the Shimano's as Tom and several other riders give them very high praise. Already done 300+ km on them since picking them up on Sunday and I have to say Im very very impressed....totally silent with no ratchet click in the freewheel.

Picked mine up at Sagami Cycles for 35,000 yen. They have a set of 2010 Askium's for 26,000.

 

[TOM]

Shimano is it !

In the end I decided to go with the Shimano's as Tom and several other riders give them very high praise.

John, if you crave stealthy & sturdy training wheels, go for Shimano; I am currently using 2 of their wheelsets: the WH6600-G (ULTEGRA SL retailing at 55,954 yen) and the WH-RS20-S (retail price of 28,224 yen). Both are extremely silent, probably too silent if you are a frequent user of the Tamasai and similar cycling roads crowded with pedestrians.

For those craving big ratchet noise (and not wanting to invest in a bell), I recommend FULCRUM 7! Beautiful BGM on long, lonely downhills.

 

[Deej]

Mavic Ksyriums are also nice. Strong, light and equipped with one magic red spoke.

I saw what looked to be a brand-new pair on sale at Cycle Paradise (near Kyodo Station on the Odakyu Line) for about 70,000 yen -- I don't think it was the price for just one wheel. They usually go for 100,000-130,000 new in Japan. They can be purchased online from the U.K. for much less.

Anyway, I love mine.

Deej

 

[thomas]

I also belong to the Bonty crowd, but I have had a long history with Trek Japan support due to cracked rims and broken hubs. They told my LBS they had never seen such defects before and recommended me to "ride with higher cadence" (yes, I'm a grinder). Anyhow, I use my Bonties (Race X Lite) for commuting and weekend combat.

In addition to all the excellent advice in the previous posts, you could also opt for custom built wheels. The guys at my LBS built a set for my Panasonic: Dura-Ace hubs (very silent!), Ambrosio rims (very sturdy) and Swiss DT spokes, bomb-proof for riders on the heavy side and at around 6man quite inexpensive!

 

[jdd]

Thanks all for the ideas--very helpful.

--Deej: saw a two different sets of ksyriums at a shop today, very very nice but probably more than I need, and unless I were to use some place like wiggle, more than I want to spend. Also they're a little more visually busy (=too flashy!). I'm not sure my riding could match the image...

--others: got a mailing from my LBS today and lo and behold they have some stuff on sale. On the list is a set of bonty race lites (¥55k)--basically a newer version of what I have, and a set of shimanos that look like they might be a grade or two up from those suggested above, WH-RS80-C24-CL (¥60k). Probably lighter than the bonty set, too. (Also, some shimano WH-7850-SL (¥81k), again probably more than I need.)

There's also a slightly cheaper mavic set that I don't recognize from my googling (but will try to find later), ksyrium elite (¥71k).

Best thing is, they're all in stock, so I can touch and feel instead of throwing darts at a catalog or a web page, and can support (and be supported by) a local dealer. And I could have them on the bike within a day or so.

On edit: Based on reviews, Mavic seems to be weak on any follow-up needs, and their spokes can apparently be ¥¥¥, too. So shimano might get the nod. (and FarEast, just read your blog--I'll be asking about the 6800s.)

 

[Phil]

Guessing those Bontis had the infamous paired spokes?

Bit late to this and it sounds like you've already zeroed in on a decision, but I'm a bit obsessed about wheels--probably because I keep breaking them--so for what it's worth:

As Thomas suggests, for that budget you could get a very nice custom wheelset built, as light or lighter than the factory builds you are considering. Say Open Pro or Ambrosio rims (both easy to get in Japan) laced to Dura-ace (silent) or DT Swiss 240s (dark color) hubs.

And if you order from abroad, you will have a lot more hub and rim choices:

These guys are cheap:
http://www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.com/

Psimet is a regular on bikeforums.net and probably has good prices on the Kinlin XR-300 30mm rim wheels. These Kinlin rims would probably be my first choice for a fast training wheel: light for their depth, semi-aero, sturdy.
http://www.psimet.com/

BDop Cycling has some nice looking clinchers:
http://www.bdopcycling.com/Wheels-Clinchers.asp

In addition, he has Novatc hubs that are hard to beat at that weight/price point. I'd pick these if building a light wheelset:
http://www.bdopcycling.com/Hubs-Road.asp

I'm exactly the same weight as you. Above 80 kg or so wheel strength and durability really become an issue, I think. Especially for heavier riders, to my mind custom wheels offer three advantages over factory wheels:

- You can tune the build to the exact combination of weight, aero, strength and cost that you need.
- Serviceability. This is the biggie for me. Any shop, anywhere in the country, can change a spoke or service the bearings of Shimano hubs, for a fraction of the time and cost of sending, say, a Mavic wheel back to the distributor for fixing.
- If you go with a higher spoke wheel (especially in the back), your ride doesn't have to end with a broken spoke, because it won't go out of true as much as a low spoke-count wheel.

At your weight I'd stay away from Shimano pre-built wheels (though their hubs are absolutely solid). They feel aero and spin up nicely but aren't particularly light for the cost. More to the point, I think they are too fragile for heavier riders. I had a set of Ultegra wheels (WH6600-something) and they only lasted about 4000 very flexy, spoke-popping kilometers before the first rear spoke went--I've read of many similar experiences. Still, the newer wheels might be stronger and you might have better luck.

On the other hand, the Fulcrum 7s I have feel very strong and stiff and have held up well. The cartridge bearings had to be replaced because they seized up after the Hitachinaka Enduro (7 hours of rain!); the stock bearings are only sealed on one side, so my shop replaced them with double-sealed bearings. Apart from that, though, they've been solid... Except, they are porky at 2000 grams and as aero as a brick (they scored 3rd from bottom in the famous Roues Artisanales aero wheel test--only the Mavic Ksyrium ES and R-SYS were worse.) I think the Fulcrum 5s or higher might be in your budget, and will shed a lot of that weight...

Aaaanyway, sorry for the info dump. Hope some of this at least is useful.

 

[jdd]

Phil--I'm anything but decided yet. Just spent some time reading all the negatives about bonty race lites, and I guess I should count myself lucky. My rear wheel has needed regular truing (I have it done)--at least yearly if not twice/year, but I don't have anything modern** to compare it with.

I'm busy tomorrow, so it looks like Saturday will when I visit some shops other than the one that I pass on the way to work and back.

Ease of service here is important, and shimano seems to have that going for it (whether out-of-box prebuilt or hand built). And the hubs are quiet.

I'll be asking about the hub/rim combinations that you've offered.

**My first real bike was a peugeot PY-10, which I actually bought in Paris in '76. When I got it to the states, tires were almost impossible to find, catalog order only--it was probably one of the first bikes with clinchers in the US. It had mavic rims and large flange stronglight hubs (if memory is okay), and, tied spokes--anyone remember those? In 20 years of riding, truing the wheels was never something that came up.

 

[Davad]

I can`t say enough good things about these Spinergy Stealth PBO clinchers. The spokes are a thick kevlar lace - these things are incredibly smooth - They really soak up the vibration... . I chose them because the reviews were excellent, I`ve a had a pair of Spinergys on my mtb for 12 years and I love the way they look . They come with garish stickers but those peel right off. Hubs and semi-deep carbon rims are black; the spokes come in black, white and a rainbow of other colors.
I`m also heavier than you 85-90kg and these are supposed to be excellent - for larger riders. 1500km on mine now and totally true.

I got them off ebay; about 70,000 delivered:

http://cgi.ebay.com/New2010-Spinerg...ccessories?hash=item2c51d039e7#ht_3844wt_1167

 

[kiwisimon]

get some built up locally with good quality hubs and rims. I like Thomas's idea of DA hubs to mavic rims. Look old school but very strong and trueable. The added feature is that if they should ever crap out on you on a ride, just about any shop can get you back rolling pretty quick, try that with some of the proprietary parts the more fancy wheelsets use.

 

[FarEast]

WH-RS80-C24-CL (¥60k). Probably lighter than the bonty set, too. (Also, some shimano WH-7850-SL (¥81k), again probably more than I need.) So shimano might get the nod. (and FarEast, just read your blog--I'll be asking about the 6800s.)

Ok the WH-RS80-C24-CL are the top end Ultegra wheels, they have the same carbon coated rims as the DuraAce models and with a different style hub compared to the 6800's.

The WH-7850-SL are Dura Ace wheels, again with the Carbon coated rims and with a stunning hubs. Your right I would say both the RS80's and the 7850's are a lot more than what you need.

The pair that myself and TOM have the 6800 SL's are amazing.... the RIM is actually the same as the RS80, but hasn't been milled down and then coat with carbon so they have all the Techno benefits as the high end models. The other nice thing about them is that will take the new tubeless tires as well as standard clinchers and at around ¥35,000 for the pair I'm not going to feel bad about dings and buckles.

The Spinergy Stealth PBO's were another wheel I was looking at but to be honest at ¥70,000 a pair they are the same price as a set of racing wheels and would rather spend the money on a pair of tubular SRAM S40's.

On another note Pinarello has informed me that they cover the wheel for defects and they have happily sent me a new rear wheel.....looks like the wife has inherited a nice set of wheels!

 

[jdd]

Continued good info and ideas--thanks.

On a side note, when going thru reviews for the bonty race lites, some single poster commented that they were warranted for five years. So I dropped a quick email to Trek usa early last night asking about that, along with the pic and the info in my original post. Their answer:

<quote>
Thanks for writing.

This looks like it could be a warranty issue with the rim. Our
Bontrager wheels come with a 5-year warranty to the original purchaser.
If you fall within these requirements, I'd recommend taking the wheel to
your local Trek dealer so they can file a claim and replace the rim or
wheel.

Thanks again,
<end quote>

So I'll be following up on this with my local shop (where I bought the bike and which has the sale referred to above). Maybe I'll get a new rim or wheel, depending on things, or maybe not...

But gosh , now I've got the wheel bug! After seeing what's out there and getting all this input, I think I'll be pursuing both--new wheels, and possible warranty work. If trek does make good on my present wheel, maybe I should get something a little better for those special days.

 

[FarEast]

Hahahahaha, jdd..... mine was also covered under warranty and I just picked it up.

 

[jdd]

Ok the WH-RS80-C24-CL are the top end Ultegra wheels, they have the same carbon coated rims as the DuraAce models and with a different style hub compared to the 6800's.

The WH-7850-SL are Dura Ace wheels, again with the Carbon coated rims and with a stunning hubs. Your right I would say both the RS80's and the 7850's are a lot more than what you need.

The pair that myself and TOM have the 6800 SL's are amazing.... the RIM is actually the same as the RS80, but hasn't been milled down and then coat with carbon so they have all the Techno benefits as the high end models.
...

I'd also like to add that an explanations like this are extremely useful. To me, going in to buy a set of wheels is like going in to some big electronics store in the late 80s or early 90s and trying to buy a walkman--something like eight gazillion models to choose from and being quickly overloaded by the choices.

And the model numbers more confusing than ever.

So when you say that one is the ultegra model, and another dura-ace, and also how the 6800s differ, that's sincerely appreciated. Thanks for taking the time on this.

To refer back a ways, from what I've read it seems that when my shop is selling bonty race lites for 60k, and shimano WH-RS80-CL-24 for 54k, the choice seems obvious. The bontys are easily matched by cheaper wheelsets, and the RS80 wheelset is both cheaper and higher grade.

Anyway, 09:00 tomorrow, what will be a rainy day, I'll try to be there when this shop opens.

 

[FarEast]

You should compare the RS80 and the WH-6700's, I think for the price difference you will opt for the WH-6700's!

It was hard to walk away from the RS80's as they really are up there in design and Bling factor as other European brands but weight and price played a huge part in my choice and for what i needed them for the WH-6700's won hands down.

WH-6700 = 1625g pair = 41,000 JPY rrrp (Cheapest shop price 35,000JPY)
RS80 = 1516g pair = 66,000 JPY rrrp (Cheapest shop price 55,000JPY)

 

[Half-Fast Mike]

Wheel search

I finally trashed my first pair of Mavic Ksyrium Elites. They were recommended to me as being strong enough for my not inconsiderable body weight. (And at the time they were on sale at Y's in Akasaka.) That was 16 Dec 06.

Loved them. Abused them remorselessly with daily commuting and several nasty crashes. Eventually I destroyed the rims. Noticed cracking on the rear as in OP when I got back from Kiwi Land earlier this month, and last Sunday I bumped into the chap in front and played a spoke arpeggio before falling over - bent a spoke so much that it bent the rim.

The same evening I found a pair on Yahoo! Auctions going cheap - a chap had pulled them off his new bike and never used them. They arrived today, three years to the day since I bought the originals.

Hubs and all-but-one of the spokes of the old ones seem OK, so I might buy some new rims and rebuild them. I've been reading "The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brandt with much interest.

--Mike--

 

[Half-Fast Mike]

The Copenhagen Wheel by MIT

Would this enable us to keep up with Deej?

http://gizmodo.com/5427252/mit-ushers-in-biking-20-with-copenhagen-wheel

 

[FarEast]

thats pretty cool..... its actually been used in F1 racing cars.

 

[m o b]

Shimano

Well, Shimano is somehow the Toyota of the bike industry - good value for money, high quality, reliable and very functional. So the obvious and reasonable choice is to opt for Shimano (something I could write concerning the wheels as well as concerning the cleats in another thread). It also makes sense because of the availability of spareparts in Japan.

Design, however is a different matter and that is the only reason why I have bought a set of Champagnolo Zonda wheels with whom I am nevertheless very satisfied despite being heavy of weight (89kg) for a cyclist.

They have different spokes on the right and on the left and for the rear and the front wheel and you better have spare parts at home for exchange - or you wait six weeks until the stuff is loaded on the steamboat leaving Genova for Japan.

You also may want to consider to buy my pair of gravity-zero wheels which have a unique rear hub which does make any noise at all because it doesn't work on the clutch principle and has 0-lag in engaging.

https://tokyocycle.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/74/cat/3

If it is too expensive you can only buy the rear wheel and I suggest a more economic alternative for the front:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_c-3zlJ370fI/SyjuL-NZz3I/AAAAAAAABxI/qyV_MHEv_do/s1600-h/bike.jpg