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Tech Upgrading my new steed: decent mountain bike brakes?

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
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I recently bought a new bike off of a friend of @andywood's. The bike is great, but — and this is not a complaint — the seller took off XTR brakes and put on the brakes the bike originally came with, Avid DB1s. (I would have paid extra for the XTR brakes, but as we say in German, "I'm complaining at a very, very high level." (= I'm super nit picky). Since the rest of the components are high-end (XTR groupset, top-end XC fork) and the levers don't really agree with my fingers (there is too much resistance up until the brakes bite, not used to that), I'm looking into replacing the brakes. The other reason is that the rear brake hose is way too long, and I'd have it shortened. It literally makes an additional loop, which isn't safe when I go into the woods in a few weeks.

Do you have any advice? I'd have a tiny preference for SRAM brakes since then I could use the same DOT fluid and perhaps the same bleed kit as for my road bike. (I just gave a liter of Shimano brake oil and a bleed kit away … ;) ) On the other hand, I know that if I went for SLX or XT brakes, I couldn't go wrong. After a little bit of research, I was thinking of SRAM G2 R or RS or the aforementioned Shimano SLX or XT. On paper (and without proper experience) SRAM brakes seem to be much more adjustable. In my experience (with 10-year-old Shimano tech, admittedly), Shimano's adjustment screw does nothing here. If money were no object, I'd definitely go for Hope XCR Pro X2, these are just pieces of CNC art. But I can't justify that, otherwise, I start replacing other parts like, hmmm, the frame while I am at it (= instadivorce 😅).

Any advice here?
 
I have Hope V4 & E4 brakes.
I also have SLX and XT of the 2 pot variety.
I have one set of the latest/greatest XT 4 pot brakes as well.
All of them work great. The Hope brakes are by far the prettiest, however the XTs work quite well.
The difference for me... the Hopes are more linear. The Shimano brakes have more initial bite.
I like both feels, they are just different.

I ride with several guys with brakes from Sram.
From their feedback, buy the highest ones you can for adjustability.
The base model of all SRAM brakes are basic with minimal adjustments.

I just hit one up for his advice on SRAM and this was his response -
R and RS don't have engagement point adjustment
RSC and up for Guides, G2s or Codes
The later version of Guides are good. The models with bleeding edge.
The older versions are still out there with the harder to bleed design.
Codes are awesome
 
My other buddy just chimed in...

Rider 2: I love my guide R. I don't have much time on anything higher, but guide R are great. I have lever reach adjustment and that's all.
Rider 1: The ONLY time I didn't like the Guide Rs was at the bike park. In the afternoon I got to their limit of handling heat. Rest of the time they were just fine
 
I tried Hope 4-pot brakes on a rental and I loved them. But they are too rich for my blood at the moment. (The whole bike was 50 shades of awesome, Pivot frame with 130 mm travel front and rear, XX1 drivetrain, Hope brakes, …)

Glad to hear people like their Guides and Codes. It seems the Level series isn't loved, and the Guides and G2s are still crazy light. I'm not sure Codes aren't overkill, though. Are they easy enough to install? I'm tempted to ask my sister to forward me a pair.
 
The problem with Level Brakes is that Level T brakes come on intro bikes.
Level T is the lowest level (pun not really intended) of Level brakes.
When your first intro to a brake line is shit, why buy more expensive shit?
By all accounts, the high end Levels are great for XC, but they cost more than mid grade guides and intro codes..... so why buy them?

As for the setup, I have never set a pair up, so I unfortunately can't comment about difficulty.
My buddies have not complained about the setup, so even if it is more difficult than Shimano, it isn't bad enough to prompt bitching from the guys.
 
I recently bought a new bike off of a friend of @andywood's. The bike is great, but — and this is not a complaint — the seller took off XTR brakes and put on the brakes the bike originally came with, Avid DB1s. (I would have paid extra for the XTR brakes, but as we say in German, "I'm complaining at a very, very high level." (= I'm super nit picky). Since the rest of the components are high-end (XTR groupset, top-end XC fork) and the levers don't really agree with my fingers (there is too much resistance up until the brakes bite, not used to that), I'm looking into replacing the brakes. The other reason is that the rear brake hose is way too long, and I'd have it shortened. It literally makes an additional loop, which isn't safe when I go into the woods in a few weeks.

Do you have any advice? I'd have a tiny preference for SRAM brakes since then I could use the same DOT fluid and perhaps the same bleed kit as for my road bike. (I just gave a liter of Shimano brake oil and a bleed kit away … ;) ) On the other hand, I know that if I went for SLX or XT brakes, I couldn't go wrong. After a little bit of research, I was thinking of SRAM G2 R or RS or the aforementioned Shimano SLX or XT. On paper (and without proper experience) SRAM brakes seem to be much more adjustable. In my experience (with 10-year-old Shimano tech, admittedly), Shimano's adjustment screw does nothing here. If money were no object, I'd definitely go for Hope XCR Pro X2, these are just pieces of CNC art. But I can't justify that, otherwise, I start replacing other parts like, hmmm, the frame while I am at it (= instadivorce 😅).

Any advice here?

He was kicking my ass on the trail today! Slippery conditions but he rarely touches his brakes. I was like Bambi on ice!

Andy
 
You don't really need massively powerful brakes while you're riding off-road unless you're doing downhill races.
What feels insufficient on pavement is probably actually entirely sufficient on dirt.

I understand your concern is more about the feel of the levers, though, so maybe just get some mid-range Shimano brakes.
 
I am sure everyone's trails are different - but I would be fatigued horribly with Level brakes on my local rides.
The amount of squeezing required on them to equal my single finger braking I currently do with my setups does not inspire any confidence.

4 piston is over kill in most scenarios. I only have them on bikes I do take to the park on occasion.
My 2 piston brakes do fade near the end of runs at Fujimi-Panorama, but handle Fujiten without issue.
 
You don't really need massively powerful brakes while you're riding off-road unless you're doing downhill races.
What feels insufficient on pavement is probably actually entirely sufficient on dirt.
In my experience it is the opposite: brakes get taxed much more on mountain bikes than on road bikes for various reasons. On proper offroad terrain you need much stronger brakes on a mountain bike than on a road bike. Just have a look at brake rotor sizes:

Road bike: 140 mm/140 mm front/rear to 160/140
XC mountain bike: 180/160, sometimes 160/160 for smaller sizes
Trail bikes: 180/160–180/180
Enduro bikes and downhill bikes: 203/180 (I think some enduro bikes also comes with 180s in the front, though)

You also brake differently when you are in difficult terrain (obviously I am not thinking of stuff someone not named @bloaker could easily ride with a gravel bike). On long road bike descents you only brake for short times and the high speeds give your rotors plenty of convection cooling. On a mountain bike you are much more sustained on the brakes because of terrain and you are moving much more slowly. When I did proper mountain biking, it was super common that my brakes would essentially stay above 100 degrees for a long while and people would sometimes cook their brakes. (We'd often do the spit test, we put spit on our index finger and thumb and put that on the rotors — just to hear the spit sizzle.) Brake fade is a real thing, something I have never experienced on a road bike. So having ample brake power in reserve is a good thing — never underspec your brakes. :)

Granted, I just have one proper mountain bike descent nearby, and the brakes I am going to buy are going to be ample, but I will move this year or next year at the latest, and I might move out of Japan (depending on the job situation). If I went Shimano, I'd probably stick to 2-piston calipers. But on SRAM their 4-pot offerings seem to be better.

My primary reason to want to change is brake feel: on my previous hydraulic brakes (not just my Shimanos, I have had Magura Julies and Hayes FX9 before), it took little-to-no effort to get to the lever position where the brakes are just about to grab the rotor, the retention force is weighted just right. The ones I have now are quite scratchy and offer more resistance, and I can see that this will cause fade in my finger muscles on long descents. Plus, it just doesn't feel as nice.
I understand your concern is more about the feel of the levers, though, so maybe just get some mid-range Shimano brakes.
Shimanos are the safe choice, clearly. My last mountain bike had XTs and they never failed me once. I just want to know what is out there before I go "boring". ;)
He was kicking my ass on the trail today! Slippery conditions but he rarely touches his brakes. I was like Bambi on ice!
Wish I was out there riding with you. I really miss proper offroading.
 
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Level T is the lowest level (pun not really intended) of Level brakes.
When your first intro to a brake line is shit, why buy more expensive shit?
That's a pity and a problem, especially since Shimano brakes have been awesome SLX and up (at least). I hear with the latest generation, even Deore is up there. 10 years ago, SLX brakes were gimped XT brakes. Shimano simply did not tap in the thread for the adjustment screw, but left it in the mold. Plus the finish was different.
 
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