Tuesday Night Training

Jan 14, 2007
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japanichiban.com
#1
This is long so if you jump to the bold you'll see the punch line....

Been having a blast at our Tuesday night training rides. The course really suits me compared to the Edo river Sunday morning rides. The main difference being, if you get dropped at the Edo river you almost have no chance of ever catching the leaders. It's a long straight race no looping back. GAME OVER.

With our night training there is a section we must slow down in, as it's a bit dangerous and it's a good spot to catch up to the break aways. (even if you go through there too fast). The course is a hill, then a slow patch then a downhill, then 2 long straights (3.1km). The variety is fun. After we've warmed up for 2 laps we usually have light hearted sprints at the 2km mark. Light hearted but competitive. Because it's a loop you can lap the slower guys and use them to help you get your breath back before you drop them again and try and jump ahead even further.

Lately, I've been outsprinting everybody, mostly due to the extra weight I have in comparison and I'm good at drafting and accelerating. In the process of beating 'faster' riders than me, two of them have been employing 'tactics' to stop me winning. It's even greater training for me trying to out smart their out smartingness. 2 against one, evil against good. The last 4 trainings the 2 fastest guys have been breaking away with a lap or two before we finish. I've managed to catch them and beat them 3 out of 4. (I turn my lights off going up the dark tree covered hill road and they think I've been dropped. I then follow tree lines and keep out of sight till they slow down a bit. I get back to them and beat them. Annoys the clap out of them.

They had figured out I have been a sly guy and they came up with a new plan of attack last night. They launched a severe attack on the first lap. (3.1km laps X 12). Off they went... :eek::warau::eek:uch:

Should I chase or should I wait? We had 2 first timers last night and they were not used to this game of cat and mouse. I knew I'd have to reel the break in by myself or lose. I decided to chase. I employed the lights off technique and spurted up the hill aiming at the red flashing lights bobbling away up ahead. But they didn't fall for it. They were going extra hard. I went extra hard. I was getting close. They saw me and went hard again. This was a fight I couldn't win and I decided to go fast but at a pace where I was not puffing. They were about 400m away the whole time now but they soon gradually started to pull away. I needed help. I must have chased alone for about 15kms or so.

Damn, I was beaten. Some slower guys caught up to me and we picked up the pace again. We got faster and faster. I knew we were still too far away. 2 of us launched a last attack. There was only 4km to go and if we didn't see them in the next km then they had beaten us. I didn't want them to get off this easy though. I told our captain who was with me... let's hide up the top of the hill and wait for them coming for the last 2km. :p We hid behind a wall and waited about 3 minutes... some of the slower guys passed us then the 2 fast guys came around the top bend and we ducked down behind them. They had no idea we were there and they were sure that we were a long way away. Coming down the hill I went for it and ripped past them at about 50kph+ and saw the looks in their eyes :eek:. They saw the look in mine :cool: They thought I had caught them again. They came after me. I had my little mirror and could see them and paced myself to let them catch me. I let them lead. I tucked in behind them and blasted away again and passed them again, crossing the finish line. :eek: :cool:

After about 10 minutes of watching their sad faces I told them that they had actually beaten me by 3.1km. Next week, I'm going to just draft behind them the whole night and not partake in any sprints till the last one. What will they try next week? Too much fun. Had to tell somebody. Even if you don't read it all...

Next week. I'm not bringing any extras. No tools, no tubes, one drink holder, empty pockets...wash and oil my jet. This is war.
 

WhiteGiant

Maximum Pace
Nov 4, 2006
1,192
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Kita-Ueno
#2
Pretty cool!

Thanks for that write-up, Pete!
It was just like being there. As a matter of fact, I work in Hirai (just across Arakawa) on Tuesday nights, and finish there at 7:30.
What time do these training rides start?
If they're in the Matsudo / Ichikawa region, I could be there by 8:30 - If you start earlier, then, しょうがない!
Let me know please. T
 
Jan 14, 2007
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japanichiban.com
#4
Thanks for that write-up, Pete!
It was just like being there. As a matter of fact, I work in Hirai (just across Arakawa) on Tuesday nights, and finish there at 7:30.
What time do these training rides start?
If they're in the Matsudo / Ichikawa region, I could be there by 8:30 - If you start earlier, then, しょうがない!
Let me know please. T
Near my home... 2km away.
I usually start by myself from 8 or 8:30 the others turn up between 9 & 9:30. From about 9:30 we start as a pack and we usually plan the last lap to be exactly an hour from when we start. I try and have a slow 20km warm up before everybody gets there... After cooling down and chatting it's usually 11:30 or 12:00 before we head off to mini stop for a drink.
 
Jan 14, 2007
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japanichiban.com
#5
Yeah, nice account Pete. It looks like you might be in a decent position to go for a bike prize at the Seo Festa...
If they still graded it as D grade I'd be in with a chance... but there will be too many stronger riders the way they have it this year. I really think I'll get dropped. Especially if the pace is high at the start. Looking forward to Saiko though.
 
Sep 12, 2008
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Nakameguro
#6
Greetings,

Am new to cycling in Tokyo - in fact, am new to cycling since Mum banned me from two wheels after a fantastic crash in '87 - so I'd like to hear more about these training sessions, especially the Tuesday night sessions that keep popping up in the forums.

Could I ask where and when and what levels of prowess are required / tolerated?


Cheers,

Adrian.
 
Jan 14, 2007
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japanichiban.com
#7
To tell you the truth, I'm not supposed to divulge the location of this training as it is even secret from other members in my club. We want to improve against our faster riders without them knowing how. We also don't want too many people coming as it gets more dangerous with too many.

I am prepared though to divulge, if people want to try it on a different night and under my supervision. It is very far from Tokyo. So not very convenient for most people. It also takes a few weeks to get used to the pattern. There is one very dangerous corner and if it's not handled properly one of us is going to get hit by a car, pedestrian or mama chari. The police also watch us about once a month and if we make too much noise or look too fast and dangerous they will tell us not to do it anymore. The dangerous area is also near a few houses and if we go past them late at night often enough and yelling out (safe or car) too loud and too often enough they will also complain.
There are 3 sets of traffic lights where we make a left turn on so if we stay close to the curb we are virtually safe to keep on going. If there are cars/cops or pedestrians around we slow right down.

The best thing about the unpredictable stopping and staring at this course is the interval training you get that is often similar to doing a real race. Your heart gets used to high intensities whether you are ready or not. If you can recover quickly you won't get dropped when the pace picks up again. A good fitness measure.

So, after reading all that and if you're prepared to come out to Noda one night (less than 4 people and it is no fun, more than 7 or 8 and it's too dangerous.).

We have been very careful about telling anybody they can join us... Sorry about that.

Finding good places to train on a public road in a busy city is hard. When word gets out it can often end up destroying the place. Like a coral reef. Access for permit holders! :rolleyes:

I hope you understand.
 
Sep 12, 2008
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Nakameguro
#8
Intriguing!

Many thanks for your reply but I'm thinking this sounds too advanced for me just yet. Perhaps later in the year I'll be buying the drinks for an introduction to your sessions because they do sound terrific.

I've seen references to semi-organised rides on other days, so can you or anyone else provide the details for those or instead direct me to the relevant threads?


Cheers,

Adrian.
 
Jan 14, 2007
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japanichiban.com
#9
Our Sunday morning training is better for you probably. All ages and levels turn up and we split up into different groups.
7:30a.m Nagareyama bashi (bridge) under the Musahino train line near Misato station on the Edo river. Some days there are many people some days there are few and some days there are none if a race is on or other event.

It is not everybody's cup of tea though.... 16km warm up. 12km sprint (in groups of 4 or 5) 4km warm down, chat and drinks then more riding if you like or go home.

Any of the rides listed on this site though are all well worth trying. See a ride and if you can get to the start give it a go. If it's too hard, try and keep up or just do it by yourself. Only one way to know and it's to go for them...
 
Jan 14, 2007
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japanichiban.com
#11
Last night I rolled up early as usual and there was this guy on his bike I had never seen before. He knew my name and team, so I assumed somebody had invited him to join us.
However, after a few minutes, 4 of his friends had arrived and I knew none of them. They asked if I'd like to join them.
I told them our club trains here every Tuesday (since June) and I'd ride with them a bit till my team arrived.

These guys were going a lot faster than we usually go. No warm up, sprints from the first lap. I think the slowest rider amongst them was a C grader. I know one of the others was an S class rider...not sure about them all though.
I beat them in 2 out of 5 sprints but the average pace was just too fast for me. Hurtling along at between 42 and 45 then sprinting.

They were doing a 3.8km (illegally sprinting thru a tunnel where no bicycles are allowed) Our usual course is 3.1km.

My team arrived and I huffingly switched sides to my usual group. At the end I went and talked to the 'new' guys. They invited me to join them on Thursday nights as well.

This is perfect timing and training for my Saiko race.

My secret training route is being found out.... :warau:

On the way to training last night I ran over a piece of metal that was 'S' shaped and it hooked around my back wheel and a spoke and locked up the back wheel when it hit the brakes. I skidded to a quick stop and luckily the spoke was not bent or broken and I pulled it out. It was the remnants of a truck flattened bicycle drink holder. :warau:

Apologies for blogging all over the forum... :eek:uch:
 

Mike

Maximum Pace
Sep 24, 2007
1,066
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Kanagawa
#12
Sounds like a lot of fun. Wish I could you join you guys as I love sprints like this. Too bad it's so far away. Thanks for the posts, and keep em coming.
 
Jan 14, 2007
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japanichiban.com
#13
Update: with data.

We have been continuing with the trainings twice a week and lost some due to rain.
Will continue through the winter too.

We are all starting to take these runs more and more seriously each week too and I'm learning a lot form these guys. Last Thursday we had an ex-pro tag along. Don't think he used the top chain ring at all...
We do 10 laps by 3.8km and a sprint each lap.

I was listening to the after training talk and the pro was going on about this 8 second rule for sprinting. What I gathered was your legs can only handle about 8 seconds of maximum cadence and power and timing this 8 seconds so that it expires on or just before the finish line ensures you will be going full speed at the right time. ( I guess you draft in a good position till you can make your break with 8 seconds to go.

One of the guys each week records the data of each sprint and I can see that we all start the sprints too early. Sometimes if I go early I can hold them off. Sometimes when they go early I can't hang on.

The pro won 3 out of ten this week and every body else got one or 2. (I even got 1 and a 2nd. ).

I'm going to try and test this 8 second rule and even measure out a spot that should be 8 seconds from the goal next week.

Here is the data I stole from my friends blog. If anybody would like to decipher it or comment on it please do so.
Some sprints we are trying to out fox each other so they are not all full on sprints.

Sprint#2:
Duration: 0:21
Distance: 250 m
Min Max Avg
Power: 435 714 602 watts
Heart Rate: 148 171 160 bpm
Cadence: 75 104 95 rpm
Speed: 32.2 47.2 42.9 kph

Sprint#3:
Duration: 0:28
Distance: 379 m (2nd for me... :mad: )
Min Max Avg
Power: 315 677 556 watts
Heart Rate: 160 177 168 bpm
Cadence: 86 102 97 rpm
Speed: 40.2 53 48.7 kph

Sprint#4:
Duration: 0:08
Distance: 113 m
Min Max Avg
Power: 361 592 511 watts
Heart Rate: 167 172 170 bpm
Cadence: 92 99 97 rpm
Speed: 48 52.8 50.7 kph

Sprint#5:
Duration: 0:13
Distance: 175 m
Min Max Avg
Power: 436 736 634 watts
Heart Rate: 167 174 170 bpm
Cadence: 95 112 107 rpm
Speed: 43.6 51.2 48.4 kph

Sprint#6:
Duration: 0:49
Distance: 596 m ( I won this one... :warau: )
Min Max Avg
Power: 167 680 433 watts
Heart Rate: 145 174 163 bpm
Cadence: 85 113 104 rpm
Speed: 39 50 43.8 kph

Sprint#7:
Duration: 0:25
Distance: 338 m
Min Max Avg
Power: 436 694 582 watts
Heart Rate: 160 176 168 bpm
Cadence: 101 124 109 rpm
Speed: 42.2 52.6 48.6 kph

Sprint#8:
Duration: 0:23
Distance: 294 m
Min Max Avg
Power: 342 680 552 watts
Heart Rate: 160 174 167 bpm
Cadence: 101 116 108 rpm
Speed: 40.8 48.6 46.0 kph

Sprint#9:
Duration: 0:17
Distance: 231 m
Min Max Avg
Power: 470 687 596 watts
Heart Rate: 160 171 166 bpm
Cadence: 100 122 115 rpm
Speed: 43.4 52 48.9 kph

My Polar battery is running low and it was working fine except all the speeds were about double speed....:warau:
Think I'll put the Garmin on for off season training and see if I can get some better data to play with myself.

Interesting to see what other people are doing with their training.

I recently joined Mixi as these guys use it to communicate for training. I've been eavesdropping on their blogs and seeing how many more maniacs are out there who live eat and sleep cycling...
 
May 13, 2008
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Kawasaki-Shi
#14
Had a look at your data. Based on some assumptions (e.g. constant acceleration, constant power output etc during the final 8 s) and taking into consideration that all calculations were based on average results, the data for your last eight sprints suggests you should place a marker 113.2 m from the finish line. The calculations also show that sprint 4 is closest to the average.

As for heart rate, power and cadence, the data is for optimising personal performance and something that I'm not qualified to comment on. There are too many uncontrollable variables on a race day that can negate the best training e.g. weather, tactics, a crash. Each person's ability is different and perhaps a '9 s rule might be more appropriate.'

Calculations suggest the following

Target average velocity (m/s): 14.1
Final target average speed (kph): 50.9
Average distance for 8 s (m): 113.2

As a comparison

Target average velocity (m/s): 15.3
Final target average speed (kph): 55.0
Average distance for 8 s (m): 122.2

For those that view life half full

Target average velocity (m/s): 18.8
Final target average speed (kph): 67.5
Average distance for 8 s (m): 150.0


These are included to provide alternative marking points

Sprint 2
Avg velocity (m/s): 11.9
Distance (m): 95.2

Sprint 3
Avg velocity (m/s): 13.5
Distance (m): 108.3

Sprint 4
Avg velocity (m/s): 14.1
Distance (m): 113.0

Sprint 5
Avg velocity (m/s): 13.5
Distance (m): 107.7

Sprint 6
Avg velocity (m/s): 12.2
Distance (m): 97.3

Sprint 7
Avg velocity (m/s): 13.5
Distance (m): 108.2

Sprint 8
Avg velocity (m/s): 12.8
Distance (m): 102.3

Sprint 9
Avg velocity (m/s): 13.6
Distance (m): 108.7
 
Jan 14, 2007
2,514
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japanichiban.com
#15
Thanks for that. I had come up with a figure of 113m as well. Going to bring some chalk next time and put some big thick lines on the road. (The sprint is slightly uphill as well).

Nov 19th.

I marked out the 113m mark the day before and used that as my START to use all energy point.
It worked well.
I won the 1st sprint, 2nd in the 2nd..had a rest for a few laps. 5th in the 5th, 1st in the 7th.
Definitely easier to wait and you can even wait a bit longer if you are drafting sufficiently. Recovery for the next lap is easier if your sprint was shorter...
 
Sep 12, 2008
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Nakameguro
#16
Is there interest in Sunday training at Misato despite the long weekend?

Greetings,

I've finally found myself in Japan and free for a Sunday and am keen to try the training from Misato station that Edogawakikkoman described to me yonks ago.

So I wanted to ask if, given the long weekend, it's a safe bet that they'll be TCC folks in attendence? It's just that it's a loooong way from Nakameguro so I wanted to check the level of interest before setting my alarm clock.

Thanking you all and much obliged,

Adrian.
 
Jan 14, 2007
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japanichiban.com
#18
Tuesday night training went right through the winter and is now two nights a week Tue & Wed.
My secret little training course has attracted a lot of new riders and 2 weeks before the Hitachinaka race we were racing in a bunch of 16.

Usually there are about 8. Tue & Wed.

The week past I went on Wed, I missed Tue night due to a hangover... :warau:

We had a problem though with a person in a car....:( and the cops came!!!
We do sometimes run left through red lights. It's naughty but we only do it if it's safe. This area is not busy, it's around a sports park where people come to train for running as well. There is one set of lights where we go straight and we always stop there. No matter what.

The Wed night group was started by another team and we joined together, as sometimes my group and theirs were riding on the same night.

They like to go through a 300m tunnel and finish the sprint at the tunnel exit.
There is a sign that says no bicycles but they (we) ignore it.
The cops even see us go through and have never said anything.
We go through it at 45 to 58kph so cars should not be overtaking other 'vehicles' in the tunnel at speeds over the limit of 40kph.
We are more like a car in a big pack than a bicycle and we are travelling at speed similar or above the speed limit. Cars should not be effected by our presence at all.

The cops treat us as a car and not as mama chari riders also. The cops watch us almost every fortnight and only once came up and told us to be careful. We are decked out in lights helmets etc... I'm sure they could tell us not to do it and we will obey them if they ever do. Laws we break. Run left reds, go too fast, park our cars on the sidewalk.

Last Wed:
A car came screaming through the tunnel (Black Hia-Ace Noda Number 400 そ .935) 'illegally' blowing his horn for the full tunnel length. We immediately ceased the sprint and moved to the left but he kept the horn going. At the top of the hill he turned left down an alley. Next set of traffic lights I saw him hiding in his car behind the post office watching us (illegally parked).
We had 2 more laps to complete and we finished them within 20 minutes.

As we were having our after training chat the cops pulled up and told us they had a complaint that we were running red lights. They told us they know we train here and are aware of us. They said some people don't understand what we are doing and we have to be careful of them and not upset anybody. We agreed and told them we'd be extra careful from now on. The cops left.

Then the DUAL like black Hi-Ace creeps around and past us. A few minutes later the black tinted windows pull up down the road and parks. He is waiting to see if the cops come to hassle us. Little does he know they already came and went.

The guy is a bloody stalker who hates cyclists.

If I see him there again I'm immediately calling the cops to say he is stalking us!

As for the sprint training. It is awesome training. We had a pro with us on Wed and an ex-pro often comes and helps with tips etc. I enjoy the racing here more than the races I pay to go in. I hope that one day there is a real race on our course because it is a really nice course with excellent roads.