Training literature

Sibreen

Maximum Pace
Jul 23, 2010
563
240
63
Hanno, Saitama
#1
I'm considering buying either Friel's Cyclist's Training Bible or Carmichael's Time Crunched Cyclist.
I cycle 150 or so km/week over 6-7 hours and want to get faster. I like climbing and primarily wish to improve my climbing speed but, as I'm pretty slow on the flat, would like to increase flat speed as well.
Lack of stamina is my weakest point.

Has anyone got/read both and can recommend one or the other?
Does anyone have an old copy of either that they want to sell/lend/give away?

Any comments welcome.
 

FarEast

Maximum Pace
May 25, 2009
5,528
538
193
Yokohama
#2
Friel's Cyclist's Training Bible is very good and will help you manage your training time more efficiently.

Not sure about Carmichael's his whole coaching system as it was his so called program that Lance Armstrong claimed won him the 7 tours - many coaches have debated this at seminars.
 

GSAstuto

Maximum Pace
Oct 11, 2009
945
242
103
tokyo
www.roadfixie.com
#3
@James - Armstrong worked quite a bit with Dr. Ferrari, no? His whole 'system' was based on the Conconi (ICF) research and built on the 'Agnostic Cycling' program. (That back in the day is how I was trained). That indeed put a big emphasis on intensity based sessions. I think where Carmichael took off is boldly saying the intensity session is the core - rather than the base sessions being core. Personally I also prefer the Friel System as it addresses more holistically the 'Holy Trinity' of Performance (VOmax, LTHR, Efficiency) in a more qualitative way.

Actually when I helped the Team Tauge folks (also very busy execs) , I suggested that they use the mid-week for nothing but intensity sessions and then get at least 1 long-tempo-ride per week to build stamina and efficiency. Drawing from both the Carmichael AND Friel philosophy.

Adjunct to that - I used Trainneroad Sessions to spice things up. Again, for a busy person, access to the road is oftentimes difficult or the weather is not cooperative. Being able to jump on a trainer straightaway is valuable when you're time crunched.

Lastly - any training without real data points has less chance of success and effects . So , I'd recommend to get some kind of power measurement and work with a coach at least a few times to establish real performance metrics and a personal program to achieve the goals required.

Most riders are kind of all over the map and not every 'bible' works for everyone. We are all different and need slightly different programs to optimize the results. Something that a good Coach pays attention to and keeps the plan agile enough to address.
 

FarEast

Maximum Pace
May 25, 2009
5,528
538
193
Yokohama
#4
Dr. Ferrari for the drugs and Carmichael for the workout regime to get the best out of them - The whole argument is that the Carmichael system only benefits you if you are doping up to your back teeth. While Friel's system is based on studies of thousands of athletes and not just cyclists.

"When Lance Armstrong rose to become the top cyclist in the world he took his coach, Chris Carmichael, with him."

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...strong-still-lying-says-tyler-hamilton_272041

Also ANY training is going to bring benefits, but its when you start reaching peak performance that a structured system is going to give you those marginal increases.
 
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kiwisimon

Maximum Pace
Dec 14, 2006
2,669
483
103
Japan
#5
I have always been a fan of Eddy B, Lemond's coach.
kindle version only 792 yen
http://www.amazon.co.jp/Bicycle-Road-Racing-Complete-Competition/dp/0941950077

you'll learn tactical riding as well, as we all know it's not usually the strongest or fastest that finishes first. Eddy is very old school and if you hung out with Tim @GSAstuto you'd likely learn the same stuff. End of the day, group riding and racing will get you fittest fastest. Try the local shop and see who is riding when.
 
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Gunjira

Maximum Pace
Oct 2, 2009
1,003
176
83
Tokyo
#6
I only read Friels book and think it offers a great approach to systematically improve your performance. Probably all similar literature deals with training blocks, on and off days, etc.

I personally couldn't action Friels method, because I couldn't commit to a structured training plan. He makes you define a and b type races as goals.

If your goal is to win races, this method works. But if you are not defining more concrete goals, it might be difficult to stick to training plans.
 

j-sworks

Maximum Pace
Feb 5, 2012
1,199
48
68
Tokyo
#7
I'm considering buying either Friel's Cyclist's Training Bible or Carmichael's Time Crunched Cyclist.
I cycle 150 or so km/week over 6-7 hours and want to get faster. I like climbing and primarily wish to improve my climbing speed but, as I'm pretty slow on the flat, would like to increase flat speed as well.
Lack of stamina is my weakest point.

Has anyone got/read both and can recommend one or the other?
Does anyone have an old copy of either that they want to sell/lend/give away?

Any comments welcome.
I use CTS (Charmichle's) and it works if you follow it, there is a fare bit of initial setup, but I've experienced excellent results.

Setting and breaking PR's at will (one of my goals for this year) on climbs and TT's, I feel more powerful, I'm performing at a higher level than last year, and I have been improving continually in the flats/TT which is a weakness of mine.

The program along with good nutrition, yoga, SMR, and being smart about resting has proved very positive for me this year.

For simply using heart rate CTS gave me results and quickly, just make sure you know your stuff regarding HR and it's limitations etc.
 

Sibreen

Maximum Pace
Jul 23, 2010
563
240
63
Hanno, Saitama
#8
This is the Time Crunched Cyclist (or something resembling it)?

I feel more powerful
Yeah, this is a big thing for me.
For the last six weeks or so, I've felt tired on almost every ride.
I thought it might have been overtraining, but I don't ride that much and my times were/are improving. Just generally lethargic.
A few of months ago I was feeling strong (even though I was slower than I am now) and couldn't wait to get on my bike. Perhaps the weather has something to do with it. Perhaps partly it's a lack of stamina.

@Gunjira
I think I'd like to enter a couple of races next year.
My primary target is simply to be able to ride faster - no real reason for it, just because I want to.

@kiwisimon
Will check it out, thanks.

@GSAstuto
90% of my rides are solo, at night.
I can't look at data as I ride, so will be basing my training on perceived effort.

@FarEast
Thanks for the recommendation. Have you read Carmichael's book as well?
 

j-sworks

Maximum Pace
Feb 5, 2012
1,199
48
68
Tokyo
#9
Yes the program I'm doing is the time crunched cyclist book.

For the feeling your describing I can relate, that's how I felt last year around the end of the summer/fall. I got some good advice over the last season and winter about training and setting realistic goals, and probably the best advice was regarding rest and the next best was regarding "form".

We all need rest, and you have to do two things (1) learn to recognize your bodies signs of fatigue, and (2) give yourself the rest you need and not just taking about taking it easy (we all know how often an easy spin includes a few hammer sessions), but actually stepping off the bike and focusing on wellness like yoga or SMR. It's taken me 3 years to learn when I'm getting fatigued and I can say that the rest I gave myself this year has really helped my performance, stamina as you put it, my comfort on the bike, and my ability to go out ride hard and then continue with my day because my recovery window is much shorter now. Recognizing the fatigue before it sets in and taking appropriate steps will benefit you in the long run.

The second thing was more of a comment but I took as advice from an old dog that knew his way around bikes before I was on training wheels. Anyone who says that they can feel that their loosing form in the period of a week is not developing real fitness, they'll just burn out in a few months. I felt like that last year, if I was off the bike for more than 2 or 3 days I felt like I was loosing power or something, and sure enough I did burn out after a summer of hard ridding. The problem was that I hadn't developed that core of fitness that keeps you strong and fit, you know those old guys that blow you out of the water, have a family, and job...yeah that's what I mean. These guys have spent countless years building a deep level of fitness. I think this may address some of your concerns about stamina.

I've readjusted my goals to accommodate building a strong base of fitness that I can rely on for 39 hellish kilometers or 180. Still have a long way to go, but that's the fun part about cycling...It don't get any easier, you just get faster.