Tour de Nagano #2 Join me?

Mike

Maximum Pace
Sep 24, 2007
1,066
9
58
Kanagawa
#1
Tour de Nagano #2

So I plan to hit Nagano again next week with what I hope will be better legs. The pace will be moderate - fast especially on the desents:D I haven't mapped out everything yet but plan to do a 3 day tour, including Norikura again. On rides in the mountains we've often talked about a TCC summer training camp, so let me know if you're interested.

Day 1 - Friday 27th August

Shiojiri - Norikura - Matsumoto (170km)

http://www.mapmyride.com/ride/japan/-nagano/658128245740323313

I plan to take the earliest train out and be ready to roll by 9.45am.

Day 2 - Saturday 28th August

Matsumoto - Ustukushigahara Skyline and around - Jizo Touge - Kusatsu Onsen (approx 150km - 180km)

Day 3 - Sunday 29th August

Kusatsu - Nozawa Onsen and beyond...not 100% decided (150km plus) return via Shinkansen approx 12000 yen.

If you're interested and can only join from Saturday that's fine, you can meet me at Matsumoto and ride from there. I'd like an early start though so you'd need to arrive the night before. I'm gonna stay in a business hotel. I can put up the link if anyone is keen. On Saturday night I'll book a room at the same Japanese inn TCC stayed for the Kusatsu Hill Climb. Tatami, onsen, food etc for around 10,000yen I think.

This involves lots of climbing so you need to be very fit for this ride. Anyway let me know if you're interested:D
 

TOM

Maximum Pace
#2
Mike, I enjoyed reading your story about the 3-day adventure with Ludwig - very inspiring :cool: !

Not 100% sure yet if I can take a day off this Friday but I would love to join you for the Day 1 bit scaling Norikura. On Saturday, I would then simply cycle back home from Matsumoto. How do you plan to get to Shiojiri on Friday?

This may be my last chance this year to do Norikura with only a windbraker in the backpocket....


So I plan to hit Nagano again next week with what I hope will be better legs. The pace will be moderate - fast especially on the desents:D I haven't mapped out everything yet but plan to do a 3 day tour, including Norikura again. On rides in the mountains we've often talked about a TCC summer training camp, so let me know if you're interested.

Day 1 - Friday 27th August

Shiojiri - Norikura - Matsumoto (170km)

http://www.mapmyride.com/ride/japan/-nagano/658128245740323313

I plan to take the earliest train out and be ready to roll by 9.45am.

Day 2 - Saturday 28th August

Matsumoto - Ustukushigahara Skyline and around - Jizo Touge - Kusatsu Onsen (approx 150km - 180km)

Day 3 - Sunday 29th August

Kusatsu - Nozawa Onsen and beyond...not 100% decided (150km plus) return via Shinkansen approx 12000 yen.

If you're interested and can only join from Saturday that's fine, you can meet me at Matsumoto and ride from there. I'd like an early start though so you'd need to arrive the night before. I'm gonna stay in a business hotel. I can put up the link if anyone is keen. On Saturday night I'll book a room at the same Japanese inn TCC stayed for the Kusatsu Hill Climb. Tatami, onsen, food etc for around 10,000yen I think.

This involves lots of climbing so you need to be very fit for this ride. Anyway let me know if you're interested:D
 

Mike

Maximum Pace
Sep 24, 2007
1,066
9
58
Kanagawa
#3
Tom!

Tom, it'd be great if you could join me. I'll be on the earliest possible train, the Azusa #1 from Hachiojo at 7.29am (not that early is it) arriving at shiojiri at 9.30am. Still searching for a Business hotel.
 

Wolfman

Speeding Up
Jul 31, 2007
631
18
38
Suginamiku
#4
Just looking at your map Mike, but have you been in those tunnels on 158 before? They're pretty awful.

Tom, in case you're wondering, Steve and I shouted hello to you at Musashi Itsukaichi, just in front of the eki. We thought you must have had an early start.
 

TOM

Maximum Pace
#5
Just looking at your map Mike, but have you been in those tunnels on 158 before? They're pretty awful.

Tom, in case you're wondering, Steve and I shouted hello to you at Musashi Itsukaichi, just in front of the eki. We thought you must have had an early start.
Lee...yes I had been wondering especially since that voice calling out my name sounded so cheerful :) I was already on my way home following an aborted asaren :eek:

Mike...are those tunnels the same ones you took with Ludwig ? The one with an un-Japanese name (Gonbee?) sounded to be a pleasant one....
 

Mike

Maximum Pace
Sep 24, 2007
1,066
9
58
Kanagawa
#6
Yeah, I've been thinking about those tunnels. Tom, as unpleasant as tunnels are the only way around them is over the Norikura Super Rindo again, but that adds a lot more climbing and due to our late start this might be tricky, also the workers were on lunch break the other day and sleeping when we snuck past....I don't think I'd like to encounter them when working considering all the effort that went into blocking the road.

Maybe we can make a decision when we arrive there....the risk of course is if they don't let us past....on the return it should be fine as those tunnels will be mostly downhill.
 

TOM

Maximum Pace
#7
Mike, I'll decide by tomorrow at the latest. Hopefully I can already make up my mind this evening. Considering the area, a business hotel would be my preference over a ryokan as well. For me it will be just "sudomari" (bed without meals).

Weather forecast is looking great :) !

Tom, it'd be great if you could join me. I'll be on the earliest possible train, the Azusa #1 from Hachiojo at 7.29am (not that early is it) arriving at shiojiri at 9.30am. Still searching for a Business hotel.
 
May 22, 2007
3,608
1,440
143
Kawasaki
halffastcycling.com
#8
Mike...are those tunnels the same ones you took with Ludwig ? The one with an un-Japanese name (Gonbee?) sounded to be a pleasant one....
HF Mike here. I've ridden down the tunnels and that was unpleasant enough. Would not ever contemplate riding up them, although I know that people have. Much nicer to approach Norikura by the closed but navigable SuperRindo.

proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fhalffastcycling.com%2Fcoppermine%2Falbums%2F20090720-shineon%2Fnormal_20090718-162500-shine09-colinb.jpg&hash=db5c98bb35b59e6b9a5a090749bf6cbf


I'd love to join this trip but I'd slow you guys down too much.
 

TOM

Maximum Pace
#9
Wouldn't mind going either way...like Ludwig I've have my fair share of blocked toges but I agree the tunnels would be less stressful especially if going downhill - I'll put new batteries in my biggest blinker.

We'll hit them on the return so hopefully most of them will be mostly downhill. Tom, as unpleasant as tunnels are the only way around them is over the Norikura Super Rindo again, but that adds a lot more climbing and due to our late start this might be tricky, also the workers were on lunch break the other day and sleeping when we snuck past....I don't think I'd like to encounter them when working considering all the effort that went into blocking the road....unless your name is Ludwig of course and you ignore everyone!
 

Ludwig

Speeding Up
Oct 9, 2008
871
0
36
Setagaya-ku, Tokyo
#10
Nice photo! It is all tidied up now, and they are working on the road surface. Easy to pass without dismounting. Mike and I did it last week.

Mike, as long as you are with me, no risk of being turned back. That has never happened to me in the mountains! :)

I'm considering joining but would prefer a different route from last time - I just don't like doing the same thing more than once, certainly not just within a week.

My proposal would be to stay in Matsumoto or somewhere between Matsumoto and Shiojiri over night, head out really early when that horrible route 158 will be free of traffic, ride first up to Kamikochi to see something new (at least by bike), then do Norikura from the north side, back via route 158 (which should be a bit easier as it will be mostly downhill, likely with tailwind and there are no more tunnels).
 

Mike

Maximum Pace
Sep 24, 2007
1,066
9
58
Kanagawa
#12
Ok guys, I've changed my plan a bit.

ThursdayAugust 26th -

Take the Azusa to Matsumoto and ride the Utsukushigahara Skyliine, Venus Line and explore returning to Matsumoto to stay here:

http://www.wellton.jp/plan_dinner.html

8000yen including a nice looking dinner (pizza and pasta) and breakfast. The only rooms left are smoking, which I don't so should be OK? Book NOW if you want to stay here.



Friday - Norikura on whichever route decided, I'm easy as long as it's not 200km plus and then I'll just stick to my original plan!!!


I'll probably try and return Friday night unless otherwise convinced. A word of warning, Friday night is already very busy in Matsumoto and many hotels are already full!

p.s. Ludwig, I really don't mind doing that same ride again as I hardly could look up on the ascent anyway. Can you make a map when you have time on your planned route?
 

Ludwig

Speeding Up
Oct 9, 2008
871
0
36
Setagaya-ku, Tokyo
#13
Really ??? so what did they make you do at (inside) Karisaka Tunnel :D:D ?
That's exactly the point! They let me get through, by letting me into the emergency tunnel. I can almost always negotiate my way through. I've been turned away only once, with MOB, at a small building site near Uenohara, and since it was so easy to cycle around it, it was hard to plead sufficiently strongly. But I will always get my way in the middle of nowhere!
 
#15
Aha! I remember now. You have such confidence... tanomoshii :cool: !!

Any chance of you joining this ride ? Would be nice to able to visit Kappabashi by bike - excellent idea. I'm still sounding colleagues at work about Friday.


That's exactly the point! They let me get through, by letting me into the emergency tunnel. I can almost always negotiate my way through. I've been turned away only once, with MOB, at a small building site near Uenohara, and since it was so easy to cycle around it, it was hard to plead sufficiently strongly. But I will always get my way in the middle of nowhere!
 

Mike

Maximum Pace
Sep 24, 2007
1,066
9
58
Kanagawa
#16
Ludwig, that route just puts us uphill through those tunnels, which according to Lee are terrible. I suggest you just suck it up, do the same route as last time, over the super rindo, and let's still do kamikochi on the return leg. Those tunnels do look hideous.

Another suggestion would be to while doing your suggested route, ride the other side of the Norikura Super Rindo, past Onogawa JHS, at least that would get us past more of the tunnels.
 

Ludwig

Speeding Up
Oct 9, 2008
871
0
36
Setagaya-ku, Tokyo
#17
Another suggestion would be to while doing your suggested route, ride the other side of the Norikura Super Rindo, past Onogawa JHS, at least that would get us past more of the tunnels.
Indeed, very possible, just adds a bit more climbing, so I didn't want to suggest, but it must be very nice, and I would be up for it.

I wouldn't be afraid of route 158 if we leave at 5am like the other day. We will be at the entry to Kamikochi by 7am, well ahead of any tour buses, tourist cars and most trucks. The tunnels itself are relatively harmless if there is not much traffic. It is the heavy traffic during the day which makes this route terrible.

If I do this, I would definitely want to try out something new. I won't make a final decision until closer to the time though, both because I can't fully predict my work situation, and of course because none of us can predict the weather at this point! Doing Norikura in the clouds is pretty pointless, especially if you have done it in (relatively) great conditions, as we have...
 
#18
The tunnels itself are relatively harmless if there is not much traffic. It is the heavy traffic during the day which makes this route terrible.
After a closer look to the map, I remember now getting driven by car through those tunnels in August 2007 (when I partcipated in the Norikura Hillclimb). Not only was the traffic heavy during the daytime - the speed inside the tunnels was very high. On second thought, even downhill, I would prefer to avoid them. But as Ludwig observed, before 7:00 am, they should be relatively safe. On the other hand, I thought Ludwig's suggestion was to use 278 and not 158 when starting from Matsumoto....
 

Mike

Maximum Pace
Sep 24, 2007
1,066
9
58
Kanagawa
#19
After a closer look to the map, I remember now getting driven by car through those tunnels in August 2007 (when I partcipated in the Norikura Hillclimb). Not only was the traffic heavy during the daytime - the speed inside the tunnels was very high. On second thought, even downhill, I would prefer to avoid them. But as Ludwig observed, before 7:00 am, they should be relatively safe. On the other hand, I thought Ludwig's suggestion was to use 278 and not 158 when starting from Matsumoto....
Ok, so I say let's do the other side of the super rindo...more climbing but what the heck! We can see how we all feel whe we get to that point anyway. Ludwig, when you rode the venus line did you make a map? I:m gonna head up the Utsukushigahara skyline and then link up to the Venus line....any suggestions on good places saw you saw? I may also wait for you guys at the bottom of Kamikochi...if I feel anything like last week!

http://www.mapmyride.com/ride/japan/-matsumoto/351128255137389527
 

Ludwig

Speeding Up
Oct 9, 2008
871
0
36
Setagaya-ku, Tokyo
#20
Well, your original proposal had 400m MORE climbing than mine! And mine can be reduced further by not going into Kamikochi (though that would be a miss and it's not that much climbing) or cutting out the Super-Rindo on return (again not that much climbing from the Norikura side). Yours also had us go through the tunnels on route 138 in heavy traffic... Mine does not... (assuming we leave early).

As for Utsukushihara, here is my track:

http://www.mapmyride.com/route/jp/nagano/785128178778442304

I wouldn't really recommend Takeshi Toge though - a lot of climbing, and almost everything on both sides in the forest, so not much of a view or special landscape.

I can propose a nice route if you let me know whether you must start and finish in Matsumoto. How about starting out in Sakudaira - faster and cheaper to get there than Matsumoto. Or Chino? If you want to do a loop, this means either a lot of climbing or going back and forth on the Venus Line (which is also quite a bit of climbing). Let me know.