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Race The Training Thread

OreoCookie

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Dec 2, 2017
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I found that I could always do my best 20 minute power at 70rpm.
When I do VO2max work at the limit, I slow my cadence from 100–110 rpm to 88–92 rpm, I can eek out a few extra watt and finish them. I think my cardiovascular system is at the limit, but my muscles are not. That's also why training different cadences is so important.
 

andywood

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Apr 8, 2008
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When I do VO2max work at the limit, I slow my cadence from 100–110 rpm to 88–92 rpm, I can eek out a few extra watt and finish them. I think my cardiovascular system is at the limit, but my muscles are not. That's also why training different cadences is so important.
Interesting stuff, thinking of one of your two systems as your limiter.

Back in the day when I did gym and base work in winter, I always found cardio to be the limiter in the spring, and then muscular to be the limiter late summer.

To compensate for this I now do intensity in the winter too and try to do strength maintenance during the season too.

But as a rule of thumb, always work on your weakness.

Andy
 

OreoCookie

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Dec 2, 2017
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Interesting stuff, thinking of one of your two systems as your limiter.
That seems to fit the evidence. If it gives me a tad more power and this is what it takes to complete the workouts as designed, then this is what I will do. Of course, I will try to shift my focus to leg speed when I can. For most workouts, my self-selected cadence at anything from sweet spot to most of VO2max is quite high anyway (97–103 rpm I'd say). But it is fun to shift down a gear and activate the turbos. 😎
 

MattRyuu

Maximum Pace
Apr 23, 2019
365
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Looking to pick up some Assos too to compare to Castelli K.I.S.S. pads. Maybe go back to my old saddle. The new pro-logo feels stiff in the sit bones (tubular ischilarities) after about 50-60 minutes on.
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
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Looking to pick up some Assos too to compare to Castelli K.I.S.S. pads. Maybe go back to my old saddle. The new pro-logo feels stiff in the sit bones (tubular ischilarities) after about 50-60 minutes on.

Pads have come a long way in recent years.

15 years ago Assos was in another world.

My mate Andrew in Niigata city introduced me to them. We both rode the JBCF for Ravanello. For races we had to wear Ravanello's Pearl Izumi sponsored shorts. The Pearl Izumi was like an old school chamois. We used to raise our saddle more than 5mm for races to compensate for it.

As well as the pad, the longevity of Assos was the appeal. Andrew's gear lasts even longer as he washes everything by hand.

I remember riding up the big pass in the Giro de Hotaka together. It was heavy rain. As the gradient picked up, he was in and out of the saddle. Each time he sat down, his spongy pad was producing bubbles!

It was like an Ibiza foam party by the top!

Andy
 

andywood

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Apr 8, 2008
2,704
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Can't believe I heard Ibiza quoted. Wow. I mean that in a good way. This guy swears by a lot of the Assos: https://intheknowcycling.com/new-bib-shorts-and-jerseys-i-like/. I've been wanting to pick up an Equipe RS 39 bib shorts. Where can we even buy Assos in Japan?
Zac Reynolds used to be the distributor in Japan and he put them into shops. I remember Tokyo team Nalsima Friend even had their kit made by Assos which was quite a scoop. But Assos pulled out of Japan as far as I am aware. Zac subsequently distributed BMC and is now working with Muller who produce nice bikes.

Andy
 

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
1,491
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Pads have come a long way in recent years.

15 years ago Assos was in another world.
For someone who hasn't amassed “old nice bib shorts”, do you have any recommendations for someone who spends a good amount on the trainer? I don't want to use my fancy team kit and the cheap stuff from DHB doesn't cut it. Do I just have to bite the bullet?
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
2,704
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For someone who hasn't amassed “old nice bib shorts”, do you have any recommendations for someone who spends a good amount on the trainer? I don't want to use my fancy team kit and the cheap stuff from DHB doesn't cut it. Do I just have to bite the bullet?
Shorts with pads I've liked in recent years are Wave One, Castelli, Champion System and Mavic. With extended use Castelli and Champion Systems may stretch a little, but Mavic seems more durable.

I think summer style shorts with mesh side panels would be good on the trainer. I guess they make trainer specific models too but you may be overpriced in the year of Covid.

The Mavic ones are Mavic Sprint. Good pad, durable, mesh panels. Seem to retail around 15,000 yen?

However, if you can get Assos for a few thousand more, it's probably worth it long term.

Andy
 

Elzico2012

Maximum Pace
Jan 29, 2014
115
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There is an Assos pro shop in Shiba Koen, Tokyo
Giro products have also been sold in the same shop, as the representative company in Japan seems to be the same.
Not sure about the price, but a maker price I believe.
This shop is actually 5mn from my office but I have never been in.
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
2,704
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After riding outdoors since mid March I made friends with the trainer this week.

Using a Zwift training plan and classic albums on Spotify for motivation, I set about wearing down the rear tyre. Luckily, like shorts, I have a garage full of dangerous road tyres that are perfect for rolling indoors.

The usual training blog link and cut and paste below.

Cheers, Andy


「zwift mania!」

last week's training blog
先週のトレーニングブログです
変な日本語すみません!

I came a full time zwifter last week
rain or shine!
先週はフルタイムのzwifterになりました!
雨でも晴れでも!

last week's training:
先週のトレーニング:

・monday: zwift FTP ramp test
・tuesday: zwift workout x 2
・wednesday: zwift workout x 2
・thursday: zwift workout x 2
・friday: zwift workout x 3
・saturday: zwift workout x 2
・sunday: road 100km

an FTP ramp test on monday
月曜日のFTPランプテスト
☆345W FTP

followed by an FTP training plan
the training plan is 12 weeks
4 or 5 workouts each week
day 2 and day 4 are hard workouts
そのあとFTPトレーニングプランに入りました
トレーニングプランは12週間です
毎週4または5回のトレーニングワークアウト
2日目と4日目はハードワークアウトです

I skip the easy workouts
do day 2 and day 4 in one day
5 weeks' training in 5 days!
簡単なトレーニングはスキップして
2日目と4日目のハードワークアウトは1日でやろう!
5日間で5週間のトレーニングゲット!大丈夫かい!?

today I did 100km on the road to add some volume
今日はボリュームのために
ロードで100km走りました

will keep training like this till the ribs fix
肋骨が修正されるまで、このようなトレーニングをがんばります

RIDE ON!
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
2,704
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Haven't tried those Andy, trying to get myself comfortable at a higher w/kg first before info those. Lots of great riders on the app. Benefit has been 4.5 kg lost since August.

Losing weight is the easiest way to get faster so good on you.

In Zwift races, it's all about w/kg so the easiest way to get faster is to lie about your weight!

Group workouts specify you to ride at a certain % of FTP regardless of weight.

So if, for example, your FTP is 200 and my FTP is 100:

Zwift says "ride at 80% FTP for 10 minutes"

You ride at 160W and I ride at 80W to keep up.

Few people claim a lower FTP like they do a lower weight, so it seems more realistic to me.

It's not racing per se but it is motivating to try to be the first through the interval.

Ride On!

Andy
 

MattRyuu

Maximum Pace
Apr 23, 2019
365
395
Good to know, thanks a lot! My original goal of -4kg was lost. Now aiming for 2 more and I'm happy. The HI IT training is something else.
 

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
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Training is going well. While I have gained about 2 kg, I regained essentially all of my watts from last season's peak (321 W, just 2 W shy of my peak of 323 W). I'm (not) looking forward to those VO2max workouts …
 

MattRyuu

Maximum Pace
Apr 23, 2019
365
395
What is and how do you do a VO2max workout? yes, i could research it but source experts here have proven better =)
 

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
1,491
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What is and how do you do a VO2max workout? yes, i could research it but source experts here have proven better =)
Tl;dr
Simply put, for a cyclist VO2max is the power you can hold repeatedly for a few (3–6) minutes but not longer. A VO2max workout will repeatedly put you in that power zone, e. g. by asking you to spend one minute at VO2max and have two minutes rest, rinse and repeat. Harder VO2 max intervals are 5-7 x 3 minutes. At the end you are begging for mercy. But these are very productive in terms of training.

The baseline that most cyclist use is the notion of FTP, functional threshold power, which is your highest power that you can sustain for a long time. This is essentially identical to your aerobic threshold, i. e. the max power level where your body can clear all the lactate from your muscles. Some people refer to it as “hour power”, but holding your FTP for extended period requires quite a bit of mental conditioning even if you could physiologically do it. So it's not really your hour power, few people can really hold it for one hour.

The next level up is VO2max. It refers to the power level where you attain maximal oxygen uptake. Technically, VO2max refers to the maximum oxygen uptake per time or uptake per unit of time and kilogram, but cyclists usually translate that to a power level. Typically ranges from 115~130 % of FTP. Unlike e. g. a sprint, though, you will rely on both, your aerobic and your anaerobic metabolism to generate power. However, lactate will build up at any point above your FTP, so you cannot hold this power level for a very long time.

If you demand a lot more power than that, you will draw a substantial share of your energy from your anaerobic energy system. This significantly shortens the amount of time you can deliver that type of power, i. e. we are talking about tens of seconds rather than minutes.
 
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