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Race The Training Thread

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
1,490
1,297
Yes, "hobby races" are considered to be the entry level (although I get the impression that they are full of sandbaggers), but races are so few and far between in Japan that not signing up for JBCF makes it harder to fill up a race calendar without having to travel a ton. At least it is where I live.
The problem with having so few categories is that it is really hard to learn the basics of racing if you can’t keep up with the main peloton, especially if you are a hobbyist with a life and a family. Plus, it automatically excludes so many people, it’d be nice if more of our team could come out and compete while having a reasonable chance of succeeding.
 

baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
1,168
767
The problem with having so few categories is that it is really hard to learn the basics of racing if you can’t keep up with the main peloton, especially if you are a hobbyist with a life and a family. Plus, it automatically excludes so many people, it’d be nice if more of our team could come out and compete while having a reasonable chance of succeeding.

Yes. There needs to be a category where C and D-level cyclists can compete.
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
2,701
2,701
Another big Myoko training ride today. Didn't quite make 4,000m as Noguchi san had to go to work after the ride! All I could think about was beer and diving into the sea!

The usual weekly training blog link and cut and paste below.

Cheers, Andy


「advertising space!」

last week's training blog
広告スペース!
先週のトレーニングブログです
変な日本語すみません!

I always say my bum is great for advertising!
僕のお尻は広告のために最高だろう!

cyclists often look at their legs
サイクリストは足をよく見るけど

but like a horse
it's the bum were the power comes from!
でも馬のように
パワーが出るのはお尻!

you only have to ride behind Yamada san or Murayama san to realise that!
山田さんや村山さんの後ろに走ると分かりやすいかも!

another hot week!
40℃ max!
また暑い一週間!
最高40℃!

a mix of gravel and recovery in the week
today was the big gravel ride
平日はグラベルとリカバリーのミックス
今日は一週間の大きなグラベルライドへ

last week's training:
先週のトレーニング:

・monday: road active recovery 60km / 200m
・tuesday: gravel 45km / 900m
・wednesday: active recovery 15km
・thursday: gravel 40km / 800m
・friday: road easy 100km / 900m
・saturday: gravel 165km / 3,800m
・sunday: rest

2 weeks to Gran Fondo Myoko
グランフォンド妙高まで2週間

next week we'll introduce the ace to the gravel
he'll love it!
来週はエースをグラベルに紹介します
好きになるでしょう!

here we go!
がんばりましょう!

#imezi #imezi167 #167grv #imezisealant #プロジェクト167
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
2,701
2,701
Another week of training almost done except for a big gravel ride with Niseko champ Tazaki san tomorrow.

Easy on the beers tonight!

The usual blog link and cut and paste below.

Cheers, Andy



「put me back on my gravel bike!」

last week's training blog
グラベルバイクに乗りたい!
先週のトレーニングブログです
変な日本語すみません!

the problem with riding a gravel bike is
road riding becomes boring!
グラベルバイクに乗ることの問題は
ロードライディングは退屈になります!

the problem with SRAM bike parts is they can be difficult to source!
SRAMパーツの問題は
手に入ることは難しい!

stuck on the road bike for 3 days
I say it's boring
but komura pass and ishikawa pass never disappoint
fun on the road!
3日間ロードバイクに乗ることになりました
つまらないと言うけど
やっぱり小村峠と石川峠はいいね!
面白くなりました!

rest on thursday
木曜日はレスト

back on the gravel bike on friday
金曜日にグラベルバイクに戻って

another rest day today (jog and swim)
今日はまたレストして (ジョギング&スイムのみ)

in preparation for a big gravel ride with Team IMEZI's Noguchi san and Tazaki san tomorrow!
明日のTeam IMEZIのグループライドのために!
野口さんと田崎さんとグラベルライドオン!

last week's training:
先週のトレーニング:

・monday: road active recovery 50km / 350m
・tuesday: road 40km / 350m
・wednesday: road 80km / 1000m
・thursday: rest
・friday: gravel 90km / 2000m
・saturday: rest(jog & swim)
・sunday: gravel ride (plan)

1 week to myoko!
グランフォンド妙高まで1週間

here we go!
がんばりましょう!

#imezi #imezi167 #167grv #imezisealant #プロジェクト167
 
Last edited:

TokyoCharlie

Cruising
Sep 2, 2019
4
7
The basic format of this race shouldn't be confused as a 160km road race with 30km gravel.

There are 3 timed sectors. The culmulative time for these sectors will be your finishing time.

Sector 1. 11.3km / 378m all gravel
Sector 2. 13.4km / 490m (9.5km/172m gravel & 6.8km/388m at 5.8% on road) *these numbers don't quite add up, I think the first part of the gravel won't be timed and the first part of the 6.8km climb will be gravel)
Sector 3. 16.6km / 643m (7.7km/440m gravel & 9km/200m rolling road)

So roughly 28km gravel / 14km road, or in other words, two thirds gravel.

Between these sections is some tough on road up and down, but as it isn't timed, there is no need to race it.

We are racing as a 3 man team with the time of the 3rd man being counted. I will definitely be 3rd man on the 2nd sector with a virtual 7km on road HC at the end. My plan is offload everything I'm carrying to teammate Niseko/Fuji champion Tazaki san!

Andy
Strong team Andy!!!! I signed up...but not sure I will make it...still hopeful!!! Does Tazaki have gravel skills too? He is a beast!!!
 

TokyoCharlie

Cruising
Sep 2, 2019
4
7
The basic format of this race shouldn't be confused as a 160km road race with 30km gravel.

There are 3 timed sectors. The culmulative time for these sectors will be your finishing time.

Sector 1. 11.3km / 378m all gravel
Sector 2. 13.4km / 490m (9.5km/172m gravel & 6.8km/388m at 5.8% on road) *these numbers don't quite add up, I think the first part of the gravel won't be timed and the first part of the 6.8km climb will be gravel)
Sector 3. 16.6km / 643m (7.7km/440m gravel & 9km/200m rolling road)

So roughly 28km gravel / 14km road, or in other words, two thirds gravel.

Between these sections is some tough on road up and down, but as it isn't timed, there is no need to race it.

We are racing as a 3 man team with the time of the 3rd man being counted. I will definitely be 3rd man on the 2nd sector with a virtual 7km on road HC at the end. My plan is offload everything I'm carrying to teammate Niseko/Fuji champion Tazaki san!

Andy
Andy, Does this mean you are riding relaxed in-between the timed segments? So there is no hurry to complete the entire 140km?
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
2,701
2,701
Strong team Andy!!!! I signed up...but not sure I will make it...still hopeful!!! Does Tazaki have gravel skills too? He is a beast!!!

Yeah, he burried me today.

He's shooting for the All Japan Masters CX Champion this year.

We tried pacing a climb today in preparation for next week.

“I'm at 170HR, how about you Noguchi?”
“165”
“Good matching pace. How about you Tazaki?”
“135!”

Man and boys!

Andy
 

baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
1,168
767
Speaking of heart rate, I haven't come anywhere near my all-time max lately. I'm not entirely sure I even could while properly trained. I current feel like death somewhere about 12 bpm lower than my absolute max.
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
2,701
2,701
Speaking of heart rate, I haven't come anywhere near my all-time max lately. I'm not entirely sure I even could while properly trained. I current feel like death somewhere about 12 bpm lower than my absolute max.

I would certainly feel like death 12bpm below my max. The most important value is LTHR, the cardiovascular equivalent of FTP.

For a TT, I would sit around LTHR/FTP before emptying the tank at the end.

For HCs of up to an hour, I would try to sit at LTHR/FTP.

In a long endurance event, I would try to climb about 10 beats below LTHR, at the top of zone 3, over a series of climbs.

On Sunday's ride I went over LTHR and into the red on the first 3 short climbs. This causes damage and your body tries to resist. This meant I couldn't raise the HR again on the last two long climbs, sitting in zone 3. I was knackered anyway!

With a good taper this week, I want to try and do the three segments at Myoko at around threshold.

I wrote a blog about tapering below.

Cheers, Andy

 

baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
1,168
767
Previously I could get closer to seven or eight beats before I felt really bad. Of course, the only time I've ever seen my max (187) was while digging deeper than ever during a ramp test while detrained.

I have no idea what my LTHR actually is. I don't think I have any HR data for an all-all 30 minute effort. Probably about 160 at the moment, though. Things get truly hard at 170 and above. At 180 I have seconds left.
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
2,701
2,701
Previously I could get closer to seven or eight beats before I felt really bad. Of course, the only time I've ever seen my max (187) was while digging deeper than ever during a ramp test while detrained.

I have no idea what my LTHR actually is. I don't think I have any HR data for an all-all 30 minute effort. Probably about 160 at the moment, though. Things get truly hard at 170 and above. At 180 I have seconds left.

LTHR is a good value to know. For me it is perhaps the most important thing.

The disadvantages of HR Vs. power are well documented.

But HR can be utilized effectively in many ways.

For race pacing, it is great to know your LTHR. Assuming you have tapered and prepared correctly, your HR should be responsive and sit in the zone you want to sit. The slow response of heart rate can actually be advantageous when trying to keep a steady pace over a varied undulating course.

For measuring freshness in training, it is also invaluable. Assuming your FTP and LTHR are directly related, a lower than LTHR at FTP indicates fatigue. For training, fatigue is of course important, as it is a result of training stress. So you can keep an eye on how big the difference is. If there is a big discrepancy between LTHR and FTP, this is a warning sign to back off and take a rest.

For measuring freshness as you get ready for a race, HR response is great to measure and tweak your fitness.

Now I am doing a taper.

For me, in the middle of a taper, with lots of rest, I should be able to hit LTHR in 90s of hard effort. At the end of the taper, and during the race warm up, I want to be able to hit LTHR in 60s.

If I can't hit LTHR in 90s tomorrow, after two days of rest, I'll adjust my taper accordingly.

Just a few ways to use LTHR. I think it is definitely worth testing. A 20 min FTP test or a HC race should give you the data you need.

Andy
 

baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
1,168
767
LTHR is a good value to know. For me it is perhaps the most important thing.

The disadvantages of HR Vs. power are well documented.

But HR can be utilized effectively in many ways.

For race pacing, it is great to know your LTHR. Assuming you have tapered and prepared correctly, your HR should be responsive and sit in the zone you want to sit. The slow response of heart rate can actually be advantageous when trying to keep a steady pace over a varied undulating course.

For measuring freshness in training, it is also invaluable. Assuming your FTP and LTHR are directly related, a lower than LTHR at FTP indicates fatigue. For training, fatigue is of course important, as it is a result of training stress. So you can keep an eye on how big the difference is. If there is a big discrepancy between LTHR and FTP, this is a warning sign to back off and take a rest.

For measuring freshness as you get ready for a race, HR response is great to measure and tweak your fitness.

Now I am doing a taper.

For me, in the middle of a taper, with lots of rest, I should be able to hit LTHR in 90s of hard effort. At the end of the taper, and during the race warm up, I want to be able to hit LTHR in 60s.

If I can't hit LTHR in 90s tomorrow, after two days of rest, I'll adjust my taper accordingly.

Just a few ways to use LTHR. I think it is definitely worth testing. A 20 min FTP test or a HC race should give you the data you need.

Andy

Probably need to take a rest as I'm hitting good numbers at a lower than usual HR, but climbing stairs is a chore and I feel mildly fatigued most of the time.
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
2,701
2,701
Probably need to take a rest as I'm hitting good numbers at a lower than usual HR, but climbing stairs is a chore and I feel mildly fatigued most of the time.

On the other hand, that could be a sign of improved fitness. LTHR doesn't change much, but the effort you can produce at the level, in this case power, will increase or decrease with fitness.

Stairs will always be the bane of cyclists.

Andy
 

baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
1,168
767
Every time I set out for a Z1 recovery ride I end up attacking a Strava segment or doing a TT effort....
Maybe if I limit myself to the small ring and actually keep to it? Hehe.
 

pedalist

Maximum Pace
Jan 24, 2015
405
506
Every time I set out for a Z1 recovery ride I end up attacking a Strava segment or doing a TT effort....
Maybe if I limit myself to the small ring and actually keep to it? Hehe.
I did that at some moderate group rides. And it worked quite well. Chatting while riding also helped keeping it easy. I just had to watch myself not riding in front all the way and let others have their turn in the wind.
 

baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
1,168
767
I made a point to stop and buy some hokyushoku and eat every 30 minutes. It almost feels like drinking healing potions...

I wonder if maybe the reason I haven't made enough progress increasing my aerobic capacity is simply because I don't do enough moderately hard (NP over 75% of my FTP for more than 1.5 hours) but properly fueled rides.
 
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