Race The Training Thread

baribari

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I am currently debating whether 700 grams saved and better wheels of the Ultegra version is worth another 200,000...

Oh wait, I just realized that the Di2 version has full internal cabling.... hmm....
 
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OreoCookie

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@baribari
What make and model do you have in mind?
I am currently debating whether 700 grams saved and better wheels of the Ultegra version is worth another 200,000...
Wheels are probably a bigger upgrade, especially if you get modern wheels with a wider internal rim width that allows you to run lower pressures.
 
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baribari

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@baribari
What make and model do you have in mind?

Wheels are probably a bigger upgrade, especially if you get modern wheels with a wider internal rim width that allows you to run lower pressures.
Felt FR Advanced... the only things I consider downsides is that it doesn't have external cable routing unless you get the Di2 version, which is far too expensive. The 2021 model is probably getting announced soon, but I like the color of the 2020.

I just noticed that the wheels on the Ultegra are deeper and wider...
 
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OreoCookie

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This one? Looks nice, it comes with carbon wheels already. Do you know what the maximum tire width that it accepts is? The future is wider tires, even some aero bikes (e. g. the 3T Strada or the Specialized Venge) allow for 32 mm wide tires.

Why do you want external cable routing, by the way? It has hydraulic disc brakes, so you won’t need to change the hydraulic hoses.

Edit: Perhaps I am looking at the wrong bikes, but the claimed weight difference between the mechanical and Ultegra Di2 is a mere 100 g.
 
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baribari

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Internal gear cabling (the brake hoses are internal) looks better and is more aerodynamic. It's not a dealbreaker, though...

If it was "only" 4,000 USD I'd just buy the Ultegra version, but when you add the taxes and the Japanese markup it's over 500,000 yen, which is 200,000 more than the 105 version.

The 105 version has different wheels, saddle, cockpit, tires, and crank. None of which are really that important, since I'm immediately changing everything but the cockpit and wheels. Plus, aluminum cockpits are cheaper to replace and less prone to being damaged. And 105 parts are cheaper.

I could always buy nicer wheels with the difference in price. That would probably make up most of the weight and aero difference.
 
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luka

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It has hydraulic disc brakes, so you won’t need to change the hydraulic hoses.
this is an interesting point. I got my first hydraulic brakes bike about a year ago and was wondering about the brake hoses. is it basically as long as they don't get damaged and leak or something (and you don't need to shorten them for example) these just stay on for like ever? no need to replace them at all, as you can just replace the brake fluid, correct?
 
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OreoCookie

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Internal gear cabling (the brake hoses are internal) looks better and is more aerodynamic. It's not a dealbreaker, though...
Ah, yes, I thought you wanted external cabling. My mountain bike still has external cabling, and it is annoying.
If it was "only" 4,000 USD I'd just buy the Ultegra version, but when you add the taxes and the Japanese markup it's over 500,000 yen, which is 200,000 more than the 105 version.
The 105 version has different wheels, saddle, cockpit, tires, and crank. None of which are really that important, since I'm immediately changing everything but the cockpit and wheels. Plus, aluminum cockpits are cheaper to replace and less prone to being damaged. And 105 parts are cheaper.
I already knew that there is no way you'd only pay the price based on the currency conversion ;)

Also, I thought you were comparing the two Ultegra models. Personally, I'd go for the 105 and a nice set of wheels. Depending on your budget, you could aim for Zipp's 303S wheelset, which ticks all the right boxes: wide inner width, tubeless compatible, 45 mm deep, aerodynamically optimized for 28 mm tires and to be ridden at lower pressures. The claimed weight is 1,540 g, so that should save you ~300 g over a cheap stock wheelset. Another option is Enve's new budget line, which sets you back $ 1,600 for the wheelset. You can choose between 45 mm and 65 mm deep sections.

Also, if you get an extra set of wheels, make sure to get IceTech rotors and not the cheaper disc rotors.

If you really feel as if you want some Ultegra goodness, start with the shifters. The crank would be next.

PS Is there something better than spending someone else money? 😁
this is an interesting point. I got my first hydraulic brakes bike about a year ago and was wondering about the brake hoses. is it basically as long as they don't get damaged and leak or something (and you don't need to shorten them for example) these just stay on for like ever? no need to replace them at all, as you can just replace the brake fluid, correct?
Essentially yes. Only once did something happen here: on my first disc brake mountain bike, I had Hayes FX9 disc brakes. After a few years, the brake fluid “crystalized” in parts of the brake hose and the inner workings, which made braking very spongy. So then the whole brake system had to be replaced. But I haven't heard that this happens a lot, and this was literally 15 years ago or so. Brake technology has advanced quite a bit since then and none of my bikes had to have their brake hoses replaced. Shifter cables are another story, though. :)

I reckon in cases of contamination or physical damage, you'd need to replace your hoses, but you can avoid contamination through maintenance.
 
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baribari

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Fiancé gave me tacit approval to buy a new bike.... although I may not have been entirely straightforward about the price.... hehehe

Yesterday I went riding with a friend in the early morning and blew up after about 12 minutes at 110%.

By comparison today’s over and under session was relatively easy. I barely went over 150 bpm... I wonder if my FTP test results weren’t a little low.

I do love it when the heart rate stays low for a given power as it tends to have a lower RPE.

I discovered a gravel rindo while puttering around. I wonder if 28s would be enough for some very light gravel riding...
 

andywood

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A few weeks ago I crashed because my brakes were so poor. Today I crashed because my brakes are too good.

It's a learning process!

Weekly big ride report here:


Cheers, Andy
 

luka

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uuurghh short and steep mossy concrete climb... don't envy you on that one @andywood the crash, it says you hit the brakes but what happened? rear wheel washout, or OTB? you OK now?
 
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andywood

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uuurghh short and steep mossy concrete climb... don't envy you on that one @andywood the crash, it says you hit the brakes but what happened? rear wheel washout, or OTB? you OK now?
It was pretty slow. The road was really rough. Noguchi san was skidding out of a rough patch. I tried to go round him but Motoki san was coming round me. So I grabbed the brakes, locked up and went flying like Superman.

Just scratches to my front. Luckily it was a good dive and I kept my chin off the ground.

DSC_0234.JPG

The brakes are much more powerful than what I'm used too, so I need to practice and get a good feel for them.

Noguchi san's report here if you are interested.


Cheers, Andy
 
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luka

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ooouch! so OTB it was. MTBers practice to straddle over the bars and land on their feet in such circumstances. much narrower bars here should work to your advantage, but the overall geometry does not.... take care eh
 
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andywood

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ooouch! so OTB it was. MTBers practice to straddle over the bars and land on their feet in such circumstances. much narrower bars here should work to your advantage, but the overall geometry does not.... take care eh
It all happens in an instant. I'd say I'm pretty good at crashing. Releasing yourself from the bike is important. Then just trying to land in a way which limits the damage.

Check this out from 10:15!


Lots of padding on the arse!

Andy
 
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andywood

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This year with no races, I've been just enjoying riding off road with a big ride once or twice a week.

Great fun but it's also flirting with overtraining.

As things start to settle down and races come out, it's time to build a training plan.

The usual weekly training blog link and cut and paste below.

Cheers, Andy


「rest week」

last week's training blog
先週のトレーニングブログです
変な日本語すみません!

a few years ago
when I was being trained by a coach
I did 4 week blocks
3 weeks hard
1 week rest
数年前に
コーチにトレーニングにされていたとき
4週間のブロックをしました
3週間ハード
1週間レスト

in the last few years
I've built training blocks around TTs
a few weeks hard training
with a 7 to 10 day taper
前の二年間に
TTレースのタイミングでトレーニングブロックを作って
7~10日間のテーパーをしました

this year with no races
I've been training non stop
今年はレースがない
ノンストップでトレーニングをやってしまいました

I can feel the fatigue
on tuesday's ride
I realized I need a few days off
疲れを感じる
火曜日のライドに
数日のレストが必要だ
に気づきました

last week's training:
先週のトレーニング:

・monday: recovery (35km) / strength
・tuesday: road loop tempo (60km, 700m) / strength
・wednesday: rest
/ strength
・thursday: rest
・friday: sram x1 test ride (40km, 600m)
・saturday: full otaki training (130km, 3,000 m)
・sunday: rest

working back from october's SDA Otaki
it's time to build a training plan
and get the benefits from all this hard work
10月のSDA王滝から後ろに見て
トレーニングプランを作らなくちゃ
今までのハードワークのベネフィットが出るように

here we go!
がんばります!

#imezi #imezi167 #167grv #imezisealant #プロジェクト167
 

andywood

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@andywood
How did you like riding 1x? Was it offroad or on a road bike? What was the setup?
I've actually been riding x1 for a while as I wore out the outer chain ring.

I'm still riding that crank on the 34 small chain ring (will probably get a single 40 or the CX season).

So the only difference is a 42 cassette on the back which makes off road 20% plus much more manageable.

Being able to climb at target 80rpm instead of 50 to 60rpm really saves the legs till the top of the climb and till the end of the overall ride.

The one lever gear change will take some getting used to and I misclicked a few times.

With the hydraulic brakes I can also descend faster. Just need to be careful not to lock up!

Andy
 
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OreoCookie

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@andywood
You had an entry SRAM 1x, so I assumed you had a test bike with Rival 1x or Force 1x.
I've actually been riding x1 for a while as I wore out the outer chain ring.

I'm still riding that crank on the 34 small chain ring (will probably get a single 40 or the CX season).
Hehe. A 34-tooth chainring is mountain bike territory, although 34:42 is quite sporty :)
Being able to climb at target 80rpm instead of 50 to 60rpm really saves the legs till the top of the climb and till the end of the overall ride.
Yup, had that experience myself recently. On a climb where I usually use something like 34:25 max, I tried going for 34:32 in the steeper bits, and it was glorious to pedal at 90~95 rpm rather than 70 rpm a more aggressive gear.
With the hydraulic brakes I can also descend faster. Just need to be careful not to lock up!
Once you get used to hydraulic brakes, you never want to go back.
 

andywood

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@andywood
You had an entry SRAM 1x, so I assumed you had a test bike with Rival 1x or Force 1x.

Hehe. A 34-tooth chainring is mountain bike territory, although 34:42 is quite sporty :)

Yup, had that experience myself recently. On a climb where I usually use something like 34:25 max, I tried going for 34:32 in the steeper bits, and it was glorious to pedal at 90~95 rpm rather than 70 rpm a more aggressive gear.

Once you get used to hydraulic brakes, you never want to go back.
The current set up is:

Sram Apex levers
Sram Rival brakes
Sram 11 speed chain
Shimano Ultegra 34 teeth, 170mm length crank
Shimano 11/42 cassette
Shimano ice rotors

for climbing and optimum cadence

if you can follow someone's wheel on a climb

note what happens when you drop to a heavier gear or rise to a lighter gear

ie. does a gap open? is it a strain on the legs? how does the HR respond?

that's the way to find your optimum cadence

for me cadence is so important that I devote half my bike computer screen to it!

Andy
 
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andywood

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A beautiful day today. I squeezed in a ride between my kids 7 football matches! Luckily the football ground is right at the foot of Mt. Yoneyama.

IMG_20200621_102652.jpg

Between other games I wrote the weekly training blog.

The usual blog link and cut and paste below.

Cheers, Andy


「respect the offroad!」

last week's training blog

one thing I've learned this year
offroad riding makes you much tireder than onroad riding

the big weekend ride (100km, 3,000m over) demands respect

you can't ride too hard before it
and you have to recover after it

this means the weekday rides have to be
・short
・specific (gravel and climbing/descending)
・some intensity

In the week
I wonder whether I'm training hard enough

but when I look back at the end of the week
the training looks good

last week's training:

・monday: kenno forest easy (16km, 350m) / strength
・tuesday: (55km, 1,300m) / strength
・wednesday: kenno rindo x 5 (18km, 550 m)
・thursday: kujiranami rindo KOM attack (40km, 800 m) / strength
・friday: tsukayama gravel exploring (65km, 1,350m)
・saturday: full otaki training (145km, 3,500 m)
・sunday: mt. yonema rindo (20km, 700 m)

here's to more good training next week!

#imezi #imezi167 #167grv #imezisealant #プロジェクト167
 
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baribari

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Went for a group ride yesterday morning, not expecting to ride 100 km (first time this year...). I took over 20 minutes off my previous best (pre-Strava hillclimb) time up one of the major local climbs (and even more off my last Strava time). And I wasn't even going fast during the flat portion. One of the people in the group said I sounded like I was going to die. Haha.

I think I set a number of best power numbers at least for this year....