Race The Training Thread

andywood

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I tend to agree. Adjusting my new pedals from the factory setting (too lose) to about the mid point greatly increased the stability of my foot, which I think may have reduced my knee issue.

If you just want to try a pedal with more float, a cheaper solution to try might be using Look pedals. They have 50% more float than Shimano pedals.
If you use Shimano, remember there are 3 cleat types with regards to float. Blue, red and yellow.

I prefer yellow. If anyone wants to try blue I have.a new pair gathering dust...

Andy
 

baribari

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If you use Shimano, remember there are 3 cleat types with regards to float. Blue, red and yellow.

I prefer yellow. If anyone wants to try blue I have.a new pair gathering dust...

Andy
I take that back, the red Look cleats have twice as much float as the Yellow Shimanos.

I only use the yellows, although my pedals came with some used blue and yellow cleats. I must say that I was surprised how much tightening the pedals changed how much free play I had.

Not only do the blue cleats have less float than the yellows, they also pivot at the front of the pedal instead of at the middle.
 
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baribari

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I've had Eggbeaters before, which are very floaty pedals, and I switched to them, because my Shimano SPD pedals were giving my knees grief. With Shimano SPD-SL, I feel very much locked in. So if I am in a good position one day, that's awesome, but if for some reason I'm in a bad position, I am locked into that bad position. It also seems to depend on which muscle groups I activate: regular and “stompier” pedal strokes tend to be just fine, the trouble starts when I want to smoothen my pedal stroke and emphasize the push/pull.

True. I feel like I should give the Shimanos more time and tweak my cleat position further.
How do you feet move when you flex your ankle all the way up and down? One of my twists laterally at the extremes.

You might need a different cleat angle depending on how much you are ankling.
 

andywood

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I take that back, the red Look cleats have twice as much float as the Yellow Shimanos.

I only use the yellows, although my pedals came with some used blue and yellow cleats. I must say that I was surprised how much tightening the pedals changed how much free play I had.

Not only do the blue cleats have less float than the yellows, they also pivot at the front of the pedal instead of at the middle.
As the cleats become worn you need to tighten them. One click at a time is the trick.

I thought I was having pedal issues from 10km into a 150km ride yesterday. There was an audible click as I put a bit of pressure down to close a gap. I thought it was the pedal shaft bearings which need replacing sometimes.

Disappointed to find a huge crack in the drive side of the DA crankset. It failed in the same place just last summer.

IMG_20200308_134033.jpg

In my opinion the DA 9000 groupset is flawed in many areas, crankspider, pedal holes on the crank, brake wire angle in the brifter, pedal shaft. All fail regularly.

Rarely use the roadbike these days so put on an old ultegra crankset.

IMG_20200308_134547.jpg

Complete with power meter. Wonder if it works...

Andy
 
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baribari

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Hmm, I thought it was primarily a matter of the spring becoming weaker over time, as well as a matter of preference (e.g., stronger pedals for sprinters). Halfway is about where I wanted it, anyway. Apparently DA pedals come from the factory with the setting much higher?

Yesterday I (re)learned the importance of eating enough for breakfast and while riding. I had two packets of oatmeal with some honey about 30 minutes beforehand, flew to the meeting place in 20 minutes, rode at and off the front for 30-40 minutes, was spat out the back and got dropped by a girl as soon as I felt hungry, then I had a gel and a rice cake and then I was off the front of the group again. Hahaha.
 

andywood

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Hmm, I thought it was primarily a matter of the spring becoming weaker over time, as well as a matter of preference (e.g., stronger pedals for sprinters). Halfway is about where I wanted it, anyway. Apparently DA pedals come from the factory with the setting much higher?

Yesterday I (re)learned the importance of eating enough for breakfast and while riding. I had two packets of oatmeal with some honey about 30 minutes beforehand, flew to the meeting place in 20 minutes, rode at and off the front for 30-40 minutes, was spat out the back and got dropped by a girl as soon as I felt hungry, then I had a gel and a rice cake and then I was off the front of the group again. Hahaha.
I guess they issue the pedals with minimum tension as a safety measure. Then as a newbie you gradually increase the tension as you gain confidence, clipping in and out.

On the bike it's every 20 minutes ABC, always be consuming! 🍌

Andy
 

OreoCookie

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How do you feet move when you flex your ankle all the way up and down? One of my twists laterally at the extremes.

You might need a different cleat angle depending on how much you are ankling.
I have the cleats with the most amount of float, and usually it isn't bad. So depending on the angle my feet make (toes level vs. toes down), the position would go from comfortable and painless to me feeling my knees and left achilles tendon.

The Eggbeaters allowed for more movement in all directions, and I don't remember having issues with correctly adjusted cleats. I reckon some, perhaps all of it can be rectified after carefully adjusting my cleats, but perhaps not all. I have done that last week and I am just keeping them the way they are for about a week's worth of training.
 
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OreoCookie

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Disappointed to find a huge crack in the drive side of the DA crankset. It failed in the same place just last summer.
That's inexcusable at this price point.
Also Shimano's latest-gen cranks are a failed design, at least if you want an accurate power meter on your right side. Their asymmetry basically makes it impossible to affix an accurate power meter to the drive side.
Complete with power meter. Wonder if it works...
AFAIK as far as crank-based power meters go, the standard bearer is still Quark's power meter. If you have an 11-speed drivetrain, you can use a Red crank with a Quark power meter. (Unless, of course, your OCD prevents you from mixing groupsets.) Another option are Rotor's cranks, for which you now have three power meter options as well. Some are 2x and 1x compatible if that is your thing.
 

andywood

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By the way, this morning I had another VO2max workout, and that was H-A-R-D. I tend to like VO2max workouts, but this one has ramp downs in it, which are my kryptonite, for some reason it is easier for me to stay at 120 % than to ramp down to 110 %. Even though I was exhausted at the end, I managed to pull through.
Yeah, when I was doing lots of zwift workouts last winter, those ramp downs killed me. I guess the science behind it is to improve your ability to rid lactic acid while still under stress. But yeah, killer!

Andy
 

stu_kawagoe

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I got a free month of Strava Summit so I’m going to try the Live Segments with my bike computer this week. First time to give that a go with a head unit.
 
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baribari

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I just realized my saddle was offset to the side by close to a centimeter in the clamp. I reset it, then went to adjust the height, and the threads stripped off the end of my seat post clamp. Whoops. Thankful the bolts on my spare stem were the same size.

This might have been part of my fit issue...
I am feeling myself getting stronger, though!
 

andywood

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I just realized my saddle was offset to the side by close to a centimeter in the clamp. I reset it, then went to adjust the height, and the threads stripped off the end of my seat post clamp. Whoops. Thankful the bolts on my spare stem were the same size.

This might have been part of my fit issue...
I am feeling myself getting stronger, though!
I have the position of my saddle rails, seat post and cleats marked up with white marker.

IMG_20200313_101325.jpg

That way it's easy to do a quick check occasionally.

For the cleats it's essential to get the same position when you change cleats on your current shoes or get new shoes.

Andy
 
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baribari

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The saddle didn't move back and forth on on the rails, the entire seat clamp was shifted to the left (or was it the right?) on the post!
I didn't even know that could happen.

For the longest while I thought it looked like the saddle wasn't quite on the center line of the bike. I didn't know for sure that it was until I noticed that the end of the bolt didn't line up with the seat post.

With ISM saddles you also have to be careful to make sure they are clamped evenly so one nose doesn't get higher than the other.

I am still not entirely sure whether my handlebars are on exactly straight. I "straigthened" it and last ride it was my right side that was getting pains (although less extreme).
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
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Niigata
The saddle didn't move back and forth on on the rails, the entire seat clamp was shifted to the left (or was it the right?) on the post!
I didn't even know that could happen.

For the longest while I thought it looked like the saddle wasn't quite on the center line of the bike. I didn't know for sure that it was until I noticed that the end of the bolt didn't line up with the seat post.

With ISM saddles you also have to be careful to make sure they are clamped evenly so one nose doesn't get higher than the other.

I am still not entirely sure whether my handlebars are on exactly straight. I "straigthened" it and last ride it was my right side that was getting pains (although less extreme).
Handlebars also get the white marker treatment.

On the handlebar a line on both sides of the stem clamp to check for left/right movement.

Another line on the bar lined up to the gap in the stem clamp, to check for any rotation.

Andy
 

andywood

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3rd big gravel ride of the week today. Just short of 100km with 2,000m of climbing.

The weekly training blog link and cut and paste below.

Cheers, Andy


「kashiwazaki gravel challenge」

this week's training blog
the plan this week was to do some big gravel rides

the purpose being:
・get used to riding on different gravel in different conditions
・get climbing into the legs
・build stamina
・make a good training loop
・make a loop for an event?

☆monday:
a beautiful gravel loop in the sun
55km, 1300m up

☆tuesday:
another loop in the rain
I change the loop a little
more climbing
60km, 2000m up

☆wednesday:
heavy rain
zwift intervals
red zone x 4

☆thursday:
the kenno rindo
hard climbs
technical descents
20km, 600m up

☆friday:
a longer loop
some big rocks make it hard
97km, 2,000m up

☆saturday:
rest planned tomorrow

☆sunday:
kakuda rai rai cup stage 3 (plan)

a chance to do some race pace
to finish the week

as the corona virus threat continues
nobody knows what will happen to this year's racing

keeping the training fun and interesting is the most important thing

here we go!
 
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OreoCookie

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2,000 m climbing in 60 kms … I wish I could do that around here. That sounds heavenly. I spent my week and weekend on the indoor trainer, unfortunately, on White Day I was on husband duty, yesterday I needed to get stuff done and relax a little. But it was productive. I ended up upping my FTP to 311. After yesterday's sweet spot session, I am quite sure this is quite accurate. Although I will have to pay the price tomorrow — I have another VO2max therapy session scheduled. 6 or 7 x 3 minutes.
 

andywood

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This year I'm trying to rediscover my climbing legs. And develop my descending skills off road.

Two short rides today. I wrote a short blog post about it.

The usual link and cut and paste below.

Cheers, Andy


「climbing legs / descending skill」

having focused on the TT for 2 years
my legs forgot how to climb
my arms forgot how to descend

two hard forest roads today

kenno rindo is old
this means big rocks, big holes
try to find the best line!

wild boar rindo is young
this means loose gravel, heavy going up, tricky going down
full body workout!

21km of off road riding
1,200m of climbing
1,200m of descending

lucky to live in such a wonderful training playground!

friday is the 'kashiwazaki off road classic'

see you there!
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
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Another good week of training in the bag including 200km this morning. I love that feeling of pain when the kids climb over my legs in the futon!

The usual training blog link and cut and paste below.

Cheers, Andy


「more off road」

more off road riding last week

☆the event

my focus is SDA Otaki in may
・100km off road
・3,000m climbing

☆on or off?

will it happen?
luckily there is the same event in September too!
so training isn't wasted

☆the training

I need to
・learn how to climb off road
・learn how to descend off road
・build the stamina for the event too

☆the courses

・the kashiwazaki off road classic

this course is good for off road volume (60km)
lots of climbing too (1,600m)

・kenno rindo 1.2km, 8.5%
・wild boar rindo 2.4km, 8.5%

these two forest roads offer more difficult climbing and descending on rough gravel

・on road
riding should focus on volume or climbing

weekend group rides are a good way to do this

☆last week's training

monday: zwift intervals
tuesday: kashiwazaki off road classic course (1,600m)
wednesday: kenno rindo / wild boar rindo (1000m)
thursday: kenno rindo / seaside rindo (800m)
friday: rest
saturday: road volume (200km)
sunday: rest? zwift? gravel?

good training last week

shame we had to cancel friday's group ride on the gravel

hopefully we can do it next weekend!

here we go!