Race The Training Thread

andywood

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Apr 8, 2008
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Wow, you did it on graph paper?! Old school.

I just put it into a spread sheet, which lets me plot a trend line into the future. Not that the trend line has ever actually been useful. Lol.

I actually lost most if not all the weight by the end of my workout.
The Tanita app records a dozen and one things and graphs them all.

Personally I like the routine of checking at the same time every morning and recording the weight / body fat % by hand.

Old skool roolz!

Andy
 

stu_kawagoe

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Jun 23, 2018
433
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83
@baribari very nice getting the power meter. Should be a lot of fun trying that out.

My plan was to start weighing myself once I'd done a month on my diet. Lame, I know, but only 10 more days to go!

No cycling specific training for me this week, though I have been running three times and went swimming on Wednesday for 45 minutes. I'm actually rehabbing a shoulder injury at the moment and the swimming is doing wonders for it.
 

baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
730
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Fukushima
Why is it I always feel so slow when I am actually riding on the road at the beginning of the season... am I that out of shape, or is it the dense winter air? hahaha

The power meter is going to be so nice for pacing climbs.
 

baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
730
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Fukushima
As always, the package arrived a week before the estimated date. Power meter installed! Just need to go buy a socket adapter so I can torque it properly... although it'll probably be fine as-is.

I wonder if I might need an extra two chain links since my chain may have already been a little too short to begin with and this chain ring has two more teeth.

It only took five minutes to install the crank but like 30 minutes of fidgeting with the front derailleur, as always.

I will see how the numbers compare to my smart trainer tonight.
 

baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
730
283
83
Fukushima
Did a group ride event featuring some professional riders of note as my first ride with the power meter. It ended up being a training ride because at points I had to do 400 watts to keep up on the climbs (although no human level of power would have let me climb like those high school racers.). Hah.

OTOH I was doing way more watts than I would have thought at many points. I wonder if my outdoor FTP isn’t actually higher...
 

baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
730
283
83
Fukushima
I may have spoken too soon, the average numbers for most of the climbs were about what I would have expected (ranging from 250 to 300). I might need to set my power to 3 seconds...

For some reason my GPS computer still *wildly* overestimates how many calories I am burning. By something like 60%.

Also I suspect climbing is harder with my new 36 versus my old 34.
 

baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
730
283
83
Fukushima
Weight seems to be coming off even without restricting carbs to ketogenic levels, so I think I will switch to better-fueled workouts. Three weeks until Katsurao, although I popped too early only my last FTP test, so I ignored that result and just kept it where it was. Haha.

Wish I had money for an aero helmet and a skinsuit for Moniwakko.

By the way, has your weight loss affected your power, Andy?
 

andywood

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Apr 8, 2008
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Weight seems to be coming off even without restricting carbs to ketogenic levels, so I think I will switch to better-fueled workouts. Three weeks until Katsurao, although I popped too early only my last FTP test, so I ignored that result and just kept it where it was. Haha.

Wish I had money for an aero helmet and a skinsuit for Moniwakko.

By the way, has your weight loss affected your power, Andy?

I can lend you an aerohelmet for Moniwa if you like?

How about the catlike?


I'm not sure if I lost power by dropping weight.

But I'm sure I would be slower with the extra weight I put on during the winter.

Now as I drop weight, I'm keeping an eye on muscle mass. Even then I can't lift weights like I was doing in the winter. But I think, with reduced gym visits, my body is forgetting how to lift the weights. I want the strength gains to be applicable to the bike so I'm doing some on the bike strength work too.

I tried to get some extra power this winter using zwift and my power for this month's race suggests I did that.

Now I want to concentrate on getting faster, so I'm looking more into position on the bike. More speed for less watts if you like.

After a taper and then sickness, the weight loss has kind of plateaued. Last week and this week I've added more volume to try and shift some more.

Rain tomorrow, but I plan a big "diet ride" on Friday...

Andy
 
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baribari

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May 28, 2010
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That would be great. I need to start shaving again, too. Hahah.

I suspect I have not been eating enough lately, since high Z2 was way harder than it should have been. I pulled the plug after 45 minutes when I meant to do 105... I seem to be losing lean mass, as well.
 
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baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
730
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Fukushima
Ate “goodbye candy” from coworkers all day and had a big bowl of ramen before working out. The RPE was WAY lower than it has been all week.

According to my Tanita data my legs had lost almost a kilo each of muscle. Might have just been glycogen depletion.
 
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OreoCookie

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Dec 2, 2017
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I've started training again, but unfortunately it will be a very rainy and cold weekend (perceived temperatures close to 0 degrees plus ample rain). So I'll spend quality time in the gym instead. Makes me wish I had a proper indoor trainer.
 
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andywood

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Apr 8, 2008
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I've started training again, but unfortunately it will be a very rainy and cold weekend (perceived temperatures close to 0 degrees plus ample rain). So I'll spend quality time in the gym instead. Makes me wish I had a proper indoor trainer.
I did two wet and cold rides recently. But the trainer is perhaps still the best option until it warms up a bit more.

If you are interested in rollers, you can probably get these for the 3,500 yen start price. Good quality Minoura.

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r314787046

A good 10 days of training for me despite mixed weather.

The usual blog below.

Cheers, Andy

 

OreoCookie

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Dec 2, 2017
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We had snow falling the last two days. Yes, you read that right. So the indoor trainer at the gym it was. I did sweet spot intervals yesterday (5 x 4 minutes on with 5-minute breaks in between). And today I did 4 power pyramids that Dr. Andy prescribed me. Was fun, although I wish I would have had time to do a few more.

@andywood
Quick question: how does the max power have to be scaled in relation to your FTP? According to my power meter, my 20-minute power (on a ride, not an FTP test) is 291 W. And I upped the 300 W to 340-360 W indicated on the gym bike and was able to do that four times. Although, to be fair, the power meter is not very accurate and shows increments of about 15-20 W.

Regarding rollers or indoor trainers, that seems like a better and better solution to me: starting from next weekI have to drop off my daughter at the day care and they are very strict about the drop off (7:00-8:30) and pick up times (-18:00). And because I don't have a shower at work, I think one option would be to rely more on an indoor trainer so that I can keep an eye on my daughter if need be and don't have to deal with getting out of and back into the city (which can easily take 20-25 minutes one way).
 
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andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
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We had snow falling the last two days. Yes, you read that right. So the indoor trainer at the gym it was. I did sweet spot intervals yesterday (5 x 4 minutes on with 5-minute breaks in between). And today I did 4 power pyramids that Dr. Andy prescribed me. Was fun, although I wish I would have had time to do a few more.

@andywood
Quick question: how does the max power have to be scaled in relation to your FTP? According to my power meter, my 20-minute power (on a ride, not an FTP test) is 291 W. And I upped the 300 W to 340-360 W indicated on the gym bike and was able to do that four times. Although, to be fair, the power meter is not very accurate and shows increments of about 15-20 W.

Regarding rollers or indoor trainers, that seems like a better and better solution to me: starting from next weekI have to drop off my daughter at the day care and they are very strict about the drop off (7:00-8:30) and pick up times (-18:00). And because I don't have a shower at work, I think one option would be to rely more on an indoor trainer so that I can keep an eye on my daughter if need be and don't have to deal with getting out of and back into the city (which can easily take 20-25 minutes one way).
Maximum power doesn't really relate to FTP.

FTP is the power you can sustain for an hour.

Max power for a few seconds.

Each rider has a unique power profile.

So for me, long term FTP is good, short term sprint power is poor.

Another rider may have good short term power but poor long term power.

A power profile test is fun and really highlights your strength and weaknesses as a cyclist. And if you want to race, it highlights the types of races you are suited to.

If you are upping the watts on the stationary bike, that is a good sign of increased fitness. Accuracy is not as important as consistency. If you are using the same machine each time, you can track your progress.

You may find you can increase the power even more.

As a general rule of thumb:

For long intervals, 8 mins and above, in terms of perceived exertion, the first should be hard, the second the best, and the third very hard or unfinishable.

For shorter VO2 max style intervals, of 4 minutes or less, failing on the 7th or 8th interval is indication that the intensity is right.

But yeah, mixing those intervals up and trying to track progress is the way to go.

I did some pedaling work this afternoon which you could maybe try if the gym bikes can cope with it:

・high cadence
120rpm (300W) x 30s (1RI) x 10

・SFR
60rpm (300W) x 1 min (1RI) x 10

Keep pedaling!

Andy
 
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OreoCookie

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I understand the difference, my question was more specific: I’d like to up the challenge for me for the “power pyramid“ workout that you gave me, and adjust it. I gave you my FTP so that you can gauge where I am coming from. And very often people use FTP as one rough metric to gauge these workouts, although clearly there are plenty of others.

Judging by my hill climb intervals, I was much faster at my peak last year I was about a minute to a minute-and-a-half faster on a 4:30~6:00 minute climb (it took me about 6:00 at 300 W measured last week, but I don‘t have accurate power numbers for last year). So I know that for 5-minute efforts I have tons of room for improvement. If I multiply the measured power by the time delta, it is quite clearly why 340-360 W not out of the question for the top of the pyramid.

One note, though: I noticed that my cadence on the indoor bike tends to be higher, 90-95 rpm, whereas outside I hang out at a leisurely 80 rpm.

Thanks for the other intervals, I am sure to give them a try this week.

PS During the power pyramid, I also changed cadence sometimes to keep things more interesting. (And to allow me to break down larger blocks of time into smaller blocks of time.) :)
 
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andywood

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Apr 8, 2008
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I understand the difference, my question was more specific: I’d like to up the challenge for me for the “power pyramid“ workout that you gave me, and adjust it. I gave you my FTP so that you can gauge where I am coming from. And very often people use FTP as one rough metric to gauge these workouts, although clearly there are plenty of others.

Judging by my hill climb intervals, I was much faster at my peak last year I was about a minute to a minute-and-a-half faster on a 4:30~6:00 minute climb (it took me about 6:00 at 300 W measured last week, but I don‘t have accurate power numbers for last year). So I know that for 5-minute efforts I have tons of room for improvement. If I multiply the measured power by the time delta, it is quite clearly why 340-360 W not out of the question for the top of the pyramid.

One note, though: I noticed that my cadence on the indoor bike tends to be higher, 90-95 rpm, whereas outside I hang out at a leisurely 80 rpm.

Thanks for the other intervals, I am sure to give them a try this week.

PS During the power pyramid, I also changed cadence sometimes to keep things more interesting. (And to allow me to break down larger blocks of time into smaller blocks of time.) :)
I see what you mean. I guess to set a top power is just trial and error then. Why not do a pyramid and see how far it takes you?

If you have an idea of your FTP, then some over/under intervals might be fun?

eg. for 300FTP
30s 320W / 90s 280W x 5 (10 mins) x 2

As for cadence, maybe shorter crank arms on the stationary bike bring the cadence higher?

Andy
 
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