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Race The Training Thread

OreoCookie

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Dec 2, 2017
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One man's old school is another man's simple plan!

I encourage Gen to only look at his power for the specific intervals. Between interval days he is just doing z1 and 2 which we talked about here.
I think teaching him pacing outdoors as well as the value of nutrition and the like is much more important. Once he understands the basics of structured training, he can build on that however he wants.

The power numbers are pretty impressive, at an assumed weight of 60 kg, that‘s an impressive 4.6 W/kg. Our junior was also able to hit crazy high W/kgs during climbs (at the practice race I averaged about 6 W/kg at a climb) and he kept up for two hot laps. Seems he struggles more with pacing then Gen. (No doubt in part because Gen has a better teacher.)
 

OreoCookie

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Dec 2, 2017
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My head started to hurt during what should have been a relatively easy VO2 max workout.
Z2 outdoor rides in the late afternoon are also way harder than they should be.
Yeah, same here. I could do an outdoor ride today, but the heat and humidity tempers my enthusiasm.
 

OreoCookie

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Dec 2, 2017
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On another note my power meter may be dead. Erroneous readings after getting some water in there after changing the battery last week...
What kind of power meter is it? Is it a 4iiii? When I got mine, for two weeks it produced fantastic numbers for me. If those had been accurate, I’d be world class. 450 W average? 1900 W sprint? No problem! It settled in after about a month. The used unit I got from The Pro’s Closet for my mountain bike lasted two weeks. Not sure if I was just unlucky or whether that’s representative, though. My first unit worked well afterwards until I sold my previous road bike.

Also be careful about leg imbalances with one-sided power meters. It shifted mine to 55:45. Now I am back to about 50:50.
 

baribari

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Somehow I managed to convince myself to get on the bike before work (instead of after), though I only did 30 minutes.
I did manage to set a new one-second and five-second power record this morning. 1355 w and 1273 w.
Need to get to a point where I can actually do those numbers at the end of a race instead of perfectly fresh.
 

OreoCookie

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Dec 2, 2017
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Those are very respectable power numbers. And I reckon if you keep on practicing, your end-of-race numbers will get closer and closer to those.
 

andywood

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Apr 8, 2008
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I think teaching him pacing outdoors as well as the value of nutrition and the like is much more important. Once he understands the basics of structured training, he can build on that however he wants.

The power numbers are pretty impressive, at an assumed weight of 60 kg, that‘s an impressive 4.6 W/kg. Our junior was also able to hit crazy high W/kgs during climbs (at the practice race I averaged about 6 W/kg at a climb) and he kept up for two hot laps. Seems he struggles more with pacing then Gen. (No doubt in part because Gen has a better teacher.)

62kg so 4.4W/kg. He's fast on the flat too thanks to good position and posture on the bike. We'll do a 1 mile track TT in a few weeks so we need to do some training for that. The track is open to the public on Sunday but he's doing a 4h enduro with his dad. I might spike dad's drinks on Saturday night so I can take his place!

Andy
 

andywood

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Apr 8, 2008
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What kind of power meter is it? Is it a 4iiii? When I got mine, for two weeks it produced fantastic numbers for me. If those had been accurate, I’d be world class. 450 W average? 1900 W sprint? No problem! It settled in after about a month. The used unit I got from The Pro’s Closet for my mountain bike lasted two weeks. Not sure if I was just unlucky or whether that’s representative, though. My first unit worked well afterwards until I sold my previous road bike.

Also be careful about leg imbalances with one-sided power meters. It shifted mine to 55:45. Now I am back to about 50:50.

It's stages. I replaced the battery last week but maybe didn't replace the cap properly (don't change parts in the dark at 4am!) and some water got in there.

Screenshot_20220812-133509_Chrome.jpg

Yesterday it was calibrating with a number like 500 and showing 1000W on the climbs.

Then it would calibrate with a number like 1300 and show 100W on the climb.

I got the internal elecrodes etc cleaned up yesterday. It's calibrating consistently now.

Screenshot_20220812-134232_StagesPower.jpg
Screenshot_20220812-134400_StagesPower.jpg

I'll go and test it now. Only a couple of short efforts though as it's 33 degrees!

Andy
 

andywood

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Apr 8, 2008
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Yeah, posture is a big one — and super important for lighter riders.

View attachment 20220811_060150.mp4

This is his climbing form, 18 minutes into yesterday's FTP test. On straight uniform gradient stretches like this, I encourage him to get into the optimal gear quickly, then get the hands on the top of the bars and pull lightly with each pedal stroke. He is sitting just above lap power here. Then he will go a little deeper with 2 mins to go, before going all in with 1 min to go.

Smart kid.

Andy
 

andywood

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Apr 8, 2008
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The young gun showed his best form thus far Isonobe yesterday. Only to crash out spectacularly on the descent.

Last week's training blog below.

Cheers, Andy


「the ups and downs of a racing cyclist!」

last week's training blog!
a week is a long time in cycling!
on SUNDAY Gen was on the top of the podium!
with his dad! (really!)
100km at 35kph!
MONDAY is a rest day
TUESDAY intervals
how will he respond?
side by side
his body language shows fatigue
his HR is also low
still he does 2 solid 20 minute efforts
WEDNESDAY is an easy day, "resting is training"
THURSDAY we check Sunday's race course
FRIDAY intervals
how will he respond?
he is strong
the pacing is great too
Isonobe at sub threshold
the condition is good
then on the descent
crash out!
ripped skinsuit, cracked helmet, hole in the shoes, road rash
but the look in the eyes is one of disappointment
all he is thinking about is SUNDAY'S race
maybe only a cyclist can understand that mentality
on FRIDAY AFTERNOON
"rest properly, decide on Saturday night if you can race"
"I've already decided..."

#andycoaching #ssskashiwazaki #cycleshopjyonnobitime #imeziwheels
 

OreoCookie

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Dec 2, 2017
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I took a very easy recovery week. I got some advice from a coach from the TR forums, and he recommended making recovery weeks even easier. I really had trouble keeping the horses in when I did my recovery ride, I really felt like I was bursting at the seems with power. In the afternoon, I had to rush to visit a friend (about 25 km one way by bike) and I might have overcooked my legs a little, especially on the way back. Heartrate-wise it felt great, but I know doing 35–37 km/h on a mountain bike on the flats required quite a bit of power.

The next block I have reduced the number of days with intensity from 3 to 2. I felt a bit exhausted over Obon and our 4-year-old is not letting us sleep at night. It takes her 2 hours or so until she finally starts sleeping, and thus, even though we go to bed between 9 and 9:30, sometimes I cannot catch proper sleep until 11.
 

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
2,479
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The young gun showed his best form thus far Isonobe yesterday. Only to crash out spectacularly on the descent.

Last week's training blog below.

Cheers, Andy


「the ups and downs of a racing cyclist!」

last week's training blog!
a week is a long time in cycling!
on SUNDAY Gen was on the top of the podium!
with his dad! (really!)
100km at 35kph!
Podiuming with his dad, that’s gotta be one of the highlights of both of their lives.
And 35 km/h for 100 km is mad, props to them. He must be super aero and able to hold an aero position for long times to achieve this.
then on the descent

crash out!
ripped skinsuit, cracked helmet, hole in the shoes, road rash
but the look in the eyes is one of disappointment
all he is thinking about is SUNDAY'S race
maybe only a cyclist can understand that mentality
on FRIDAY AFTERNOON
"rest properly, decide on Saturday night if you can race"
"I've already decided..."
Yeah, but you didn’t tell us whether his bike ok! 😉
Crashing is always hard, it reminds you of how vulnerable you are. When you are skilled a lot of the crashes are due to very bad luck (e. g. you are clipping some stones on the road in a corner) or because you have zoned out.
 

OreoCookie

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Dec 2, 2017
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Did my FTP test, and I came close. But as usual, I “broke” at minute 20:00 of the FTP test. 348 W, I missed my stretch goal by 2 W — although that number still needs to be verified with other workouts. Still, just by feel I am sure threshold is in the 340s.

Keep chipping away …
 

andywood

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Apr 8, 2008
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Podiuming with his dad, that’s gotta be one of the highlights of both of their lives.
And 35 km/h for 100 km is mad, props to them. He must be super aero and able to hold an aero position for long times to achieve this.

Yeah, but you didn’t tell us whether his bike ok! 😉
Crashing is always hard, it reminds you of how vulnerable you are. When you are skilled a lot of the crashes are due to very bad luck (e. g. you are clipping some stones on the road in a corner) or because you have zoned out.

The bike was okay, skuffed brake hoods the only damage.

We raced on Sunday. I did a massive effort to get him back on after we were dropped on the 4th line but then made a rooky mistake to see us both dropped on the 5th. I persisted solo for 6 more laps working my way through the carnage of dropped riders for 5th, 4th or 3rd...

Tazaki san won easily after setting off most of the fireworks, resplendent in his Japan CX champion skinsuit!

Andy
 

andywood

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Apr 8, 2008
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Did my FTP test, and I came close. But as usual, I “broke” at minute 20:00 of the FTP test. 348 W, I missed my stretch goal by 2 W — although that number still needs to be verified with other workouts. Still, just by feel I am sure threshold is in the 340s.

Keep chipping away …

Gen and I did Isonobe on feel this morning.

2 days after racing. I was a fish out of water. He was a bull at a gate. Raising his FTP by a few more watts.

Have you ever tried a 20 min test? Much more difficult to execute than a ramp test. But they are great as they are perfect training drills for TTs or hillclimbs.

Andy
 

OreoCookie

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Dec 2, 2017
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Have you ever tried a 20 min test? Much more difficult to execute than a ramp test. But they are great as they are perfect training drills for TTs or hillclimbs.
No, I haven’t. I’m reluctant to change my testing protocol at this point. I like efforts where I go to exhaustion, makes me feel good in a strange way. How do the results of both tests compare for you?

20 minutes at 105 % indeed sounds mentally tough. There is a climb where I do threshold+ for 12–14 minutes, and I feel fine afterwards, though. But that climb has structure and my power varies with the terrain.

It is important to me that I validate my numbers. Right now the change in FTP wasn’t too great (9 W) I expected 345–350 W based on feel. When I am not certain I validate my FTP with at least 2 workouts and a brisk outdoor ride where I cover the trinity: Z2 by feel, threshold+ and VO2max. Ask me again tomorrow morning, I have over-unders on the menu. E. g. last May after a month-long hiatus, my FTP did not change much, but my endurance was abysmal.
 

andywood

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Apr 8, 2008
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No, I haven’t. I’m reluctant to change my testing protocol at this point. I like efforts where I go to exhaustion, makes me feel good in a strange way. How do the results of both tests compare for you?

20 minutes at 105 % indeed sounds mentally tough. There is a climb where I do threshold+ for 12–14 minutes, and I feel fine afterwards, though. But that climb has structure and my power varies with the terrain.

It is important to me that I validate my numbers. Right now the change in FTP wasn’t too great (9 W) I expected 345–350 W based on feel. When I am not certain I validate my FTP with at least 2 workouts and a brisk outdoor ride where I cover the trinity: Z2 by feel, threshold+ and VO2max. Ask me again tomorrow morning, I have over-unders on the menu. E. g. last May after a month-long hiatus, my FTP did not change much, but my endurance was abysmal.

I would say the 20 minute test is much harder to execute. So to do it properly, it is best done at the end of a rest week. For a ramp test, I find I can get similar results with just a day of rest.

If you are looking to raise your FTP, mentally, a ramp test is easier as you just have to do an extra minute at the end. Whereas for a 20 minute test you have to set out at a higher power (unless you gamble on a negative split) for the duration. On the other hand, with a 20 min test you know in the first few minutes if you should abort or not... so it may infact turn out easier!

Andy
 

OreoCookie

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Dec 2, 2017
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I thought this thread needed a bump. I have had a good week. It was a good decision to go from 3 to 2 days of intensity for the current block. Last Saturday, after my last (scheduled) workout for the week, I yearned for more intensity. That hadn't been the case in a few months. So I am recovering. My workout consistency is up, I have had zero failed workouts in this block and while some are mentally hard, I am learning to push through. And that is despite me getting only 7:30 hours of sleep on average. (Our little one is a very hungry at night and our daughter has had some difficult nights where she refused to go to sleep for two hours at times, cutting down on our sleep. My wife and I had our zombie days where we were less than excellent to one another. But fortunately, we are both realizing what is going on and are kind to one another when we are “lucid”.)

On the gear side, my road bike is relegated to trainer duty for one or two more weeks at least. It seems my sweat has been eating away at some of the electrical contacts. My LBS got sent a video from SRAM, explaining a procedure how to fix it. (He called it delicate and difficult in Japanese, so for sure I am not doing to touch it.) Let's hope they can bring the shifters back to life. If I am lucky it is only the motion sensor, which is logical given the battery drain and sudden sleep issues I am having. So my hardtail is getting more love for the moment. Fortunately, I also love riding that thing.
 

andywood

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Apr 8, 2008
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Busy here getting ready for next month's event. Lots of lost training days. But I'm going to events each weekend, handing out flyers, and putting it all out on the course.

Gen surprised everyone but me on Saturday. Going sub 2 mins and beating Niigata and beyond's JPT, E1 and track specialists in the process.

Shiga Kogen HC next weekend. A long and not so steep course. Same start time as Gen, so maybe we can pull something off!

Couple of FB screenshots attached. Many people think TT bikes are all about aerodynamics. But it's more about getting the body down low and decreasing the frontal area as you can see in Gen vs. Me below.
Screenshot_20220907-133508_Facebook.jpg Screenshot_20220907-133919_Facebook.jpg
Andy
 
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