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Race The Training Thread

andywood

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That seems like a perfect age. I bet just feeding him is going to be quite a task …

Very true and he is still growing so sleep is really important. We can only do hard training early morning but if he sleeps in, he sleeps in!

Andy
 

andywood

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Apr 8, 2008
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This is the climb we are using.

Only 10 mins from his front door (40 for me) so he is lucky.

Niigata hillclimb at Yahiko is similar to this.

Shiga Kogen is double the distance.

This is a tricky climb so it's great for training on.

Hillclimb legends Morimoto, Murayama and Tazaki san all love it!

Andy

 

OreoCookie

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Dec 2, 2017
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Very true and he is still growing so sleep is really important. We can only do hard training early morning but if he sleeps in, he sleeps in!
Yeah, one of the juniors on our team was on a ride I was ride leader on. I had packed my jersey to the gills with snacks and food, like a hamster with fully stuffed cheeks. This poor guy only had one single bottle and one piece of carbs with him. We had to feed him to delay his bonk. He finally blew up about 4 km from the destination. I also had to temper his enthusiasm on the climb, he was so eager to keep up with two of the other riders, he simply forgot he was completely in the red.

Reminds me of my early days in the mountains … 😅

PS The climb looks super fun. Judging from the pictures it seems like a perfect place to practice pacing. 5.4 km and about 500 m of elevation, so it should take you about 30 minutes give-or-take? And on the way down you can teach him cornering and such. Smart choice.
 

OreoCookie

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Did you see him at the Tour of Fukushima last weekend? You might recognize the TT bike he has inherited! Christmas in July!
That is very generous. He must be on Cloud 9. Is he that tall? (I remember you are on the taller side, size 56 cm or 58 cm if memory serves.)
 

baribari

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May 28, 2010
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Did you see him at the Tour of Fukushima last weekend? You might recognize the TT bike he has inherited! Christmas in July!

Andy
No, I was not allowed out of the house for any longer than a few hours on account of my wife being about to pop… no races for a while. lol
 

andywood

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Apr 8, 2008
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Yeah, one of the juniors on our team was on a ride I was ride leader on. I had packed my jersey to the gills with snacks and food, like a hamster with fully stuffed cheeks. This poor guy only had one single bottle and one piece of carbs with him. We had to feed him to delay his bonk. He finally blew up about 4 km from the destination. I also had to temper his enthusiasm on the climb, he was so eager to keep up with two of the other riders, he simply forgot he was completely in the red.

Reminds me of my early days in the mountains … 😅

PS The climb looks super fun. Judging from the pictures it seems like a perfect place to practice pacing. 5.4 km and about 500 m of elevation, so it should take you about 30 minutes give-or-take? And on the way down you can teach him cornering and such. Smart choice.

This young lad is mature beyond his years.

He won our 200km road event recently. I taught him how to pace it and how to fuel and hydrate it. But he had to manage it himself. He also resisted temptation to follow some sharp attacks on the long climb. Keeping faith in this old dog to bring him back on the rolling sections!

The climb is 20 to 25 mins for most. Tazaki and Morimoto san hold the Strava KOM at 18 mins. Although the latter did sub 17 a few weeks ago in a TT. I set the line before the KOM finish so it didn't register unfortunately...

Andy

 

OreoCookie

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No, I was not allowed out of the house for any longer than a few hours on account of my wife being about to pop… no races for a while. lol
Whaaaat?!?!!
Baribari v2.0 is almost here? Tell us when to say congratulations!

How is the hospital situation? Are men still not allowed on the maternity ward? (That was the case when my wife gave birth to our second, I clandestinely saw her once in the lobby and I was officially allowed in the hospital when it was time to pay … and coincidentally pick up my wife and our newborn.)
 

OreoCookie

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Dec 2, 2017
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This young lad is mature beyond his years.

He won our 200km road event recently. I taught him how to pace it and how to fuel and hydrate it. But he had to manage it himself. He also resisted temptation to follow some sharp attacks on the long climb. Keeping faith in this old dog to bring him back on the rolling sections!
Oh wow, I get it, he has the smarts and the fitness to back it up! That's quite an accomplishment, especially a race as long as 200 km. Such an effort requires a massive aerobic engine. And you really have to stay on top of your nutrition and hydration.
 

andywood

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Apr 8, 2008
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Oh wow, I get it, he has the smarts and the fitness to back it up! That's quite an accomplishment, especially a race as long as 200 km. Such an effort requires a massive aerobic engine. And you really have to stay on top of your nutrition and hydration.

See his ride and follow him here. Seems he rode 20km as a warm up!

My file for the race part was 205km, 34kph, 2,500 kcal.

Andy

 

andywood

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Apr 8, 2008
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Looking at his, the kcal where over 4,200.

Probably due to higher HR? (He has HR hidden on Strava for some reason)

For his FTP test he did 183/204 HR.

Oh to be young again!

Andy
 

OreoCookie

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See his ride and follow him here. Seems he rode 20km as a warm up!
Seems like he picked up 8 Top-10 Strava segments while he was at it, too. (Undoubtedly, he would have placed much higher if he went for some of the segments rather than being myopically focussed on winning the race ;))

One thing that seems curious is his cadence: according to Strava, his average cadence was 77 rpm. Seems a bit on the low side, especially with junior gearing. (I assume he is on junior gearing?)
My file for the race part was 205km, 34kph, 2,500 kcal.
2,500 kCal? Seems a bit on the low side if you ask me. (Strava claims a little over 4,200 kCal for him.) How did you place? Did you help him win by e. g. leading him out?
 

OreoCookie

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Looking at his, the kcal where over 4,200.
Yeah, but 2,500 kCal seem unrealistically low. AFAIK you can roughly take the energy output at the cranks in kJ and use that number as kCal expended by your body. The reason is that 1 kCal = 4.2 kJ, and the body's efficiency on the bike is roughly cancels this conversion factor.
Probably due to higher HR? (He has HR hidden on Strava for some reason)

For his FTP test he did 183/204 HR.
A heart like a butterfly. What is his FTP? About 330ish?

PS The course profile somewhat reminds me of the course for the women's Olympic road race, albeit quite a bit longer and with less elevation: essentially mostly flat and undulating in the beginning, one bit climb and then mostly downhill with a few smaller undulations that have some bit.
 
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andywood

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Apr 8, 2008
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Seems like he picked up 8 Top-10 Strava segments while he was at it, too. (Undoubtedly, he would have placed much higher if he went for some of the segments rather than being myopically focussed on winning the race ;))

One thing that seems curious is his cadence: according to Strava, his average cadence was 77 rpm. Seems a bit on the low side, especially with junior gearing. (I assume he is on junior gearing?)

2,500 kCal? Seems a bit on the low side if you ask me. (Strava claims a little over 4,200 kCal for him.) How did you place? Did you help him win by e. g. leading him out?

I assume Strava calculates with HR and duration?

For me it was 6h at 80% zone 2.

Screenshot_20220801-135609_Strava.jpg

We rode as a 4. I told Gen not to touch the front until after the final climb with 30km to go. Which he did.

I paced the flats. A guy who we are riding with now, Yamada san, paced the long climb up to the Nagano border which was really tough with the usual morning headwind.

So he was assisted but it's no easy task to do a ride lack that at 15 years old. Guys twice his age had stories of heat stroke, bonking etc at the finish.

Here's my file for comparison and a few photos too.

Andy

Check out my activity on Strava: https://strava.app.link/WYi9iGG57rb
 

OreoCookie

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I assume Strava calculates with HR and duration?
Yeah, but I think the formula that Strava uses doesn't work very well for someone as well-trained as you are.
So he was assisted but it's no easy task to do a ride lack that at 15 years old. Guys twice his age had stories of heat stroke, bonking etc at the finish.
Most road cycling events are a group sport. It is entirely fair to work with him, that's part of the sport after all! It was really smart that you paced for him.
Guys twice his age had stories of heat stroke, bonking etc at the finish.
Oh yeah, that's a real danger.
Last year at the race @baribari and I did together, the hottest day of the year here in Miyagi-ken, I think 3 or perhaps 4 people where whisked off by an ambulance — heat stroke. At least two of them were in their early to at most mid-20s. Our team captain had to pull the plug and was super close to having a heat stroke, too.
 

baribari

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May 28, 2010
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Whaaaat?!?!!
Baribari v2.0 is almost here? Tell us when to say congratulations!

How is the hospital situation? Are men still not allowed on the maternity ward? (That was the case when my wife gave birth to our second, I clandestinely saw her once in the lobby and I was officially allowed in the hospital when it was time to pay … and coincidentally pick up my wife and our newborn.)
No allowed even inside the hospital except to drop off stuff.

I learned that you should start off any race in extreme heat soaking wet. It makes a nice heat sink.
 

andywood

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Apr 8, 2008
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Time attack on Isonobe this morning.

The young lad is learning quickly.

Ride report link and cut and paste below.

Cheers,

Andy



ANDY COACHING!
ISONOBE TIME ATTACK!

昨日はライダーとコーチもレストデイでした
今日はこれまでで最大のテストでした
イソノベタイムアタック!
A rest day for rider and coach yesterday
Today is the biggest test so far
A time attack on Isonobe!

ボトル、バッグ、ライトを外して
これをやったのは何年ぶり!?
Strip off the bottles, bags and lights
How many year's since I've done this!?

ゲンのペースメーカーになる
速いスタート
二人のギアシフトタイミングは一緒
速い学習者!
It's my job to pace Gen
A fast start
Our gears shift in harmony
A fast learner!

登りの前半は400W
オーバーペースだ~
しかし、彼は後ろにロックオンされている
400W for the first half of the climb
Overpaced
But he's locked on my wheel

二頭の鹿に遭遇
お母さんと子供
We meet two deer
Mother and child

SSTインターバルの時はイーブンペースが良い
タイムアタックの場合は辛い所でがんばる
少しでもリカバリーができる所でリカバリーする
For SST intervals it's all about steady pacing
For a time attack it's all about digging deep and trying to recover where you can

最後の急なセクションでゲンが少し遅れてしまった
He loses my wheel on the last steep section

「戻って! すぐに楽になる!」
"Get back on, it eases up soon!"

「ここで出来るだけリカバリーして!」
"Try to recover here!"

盆地の長い直線登り
「20分切れるかも!?」
キャンプ場に近づく
The long straight climb in the basin
"Maybe we can break 20 minutes!?"
Approching the campsite

「行けるならGO!」
"If you can go, GO!"

彼は行ける
彼はGO!
サドルからダンシング、また座って、またダンシング
オールアウトワールドへ!
He can
And he does!
In and out of the saddle
Going so deep!

新しいPB 20:25ゲット!
リーダーボードのトップ 10 に入るよ
周りにいくつかのビッグネーム
ひとつの名前がどんどん大きくなっていくよ!
20分がターゲット
A new PB 20:25
Into the top 10 on the leaderboard
Some big names in there
One name is gonna get bigger and bigger
20 minutes is the target

今日も頑張ったゲン!
休んで
そしてまた行こう!
Great job today Gen!
Rest up
And let's go again!

#andycoaching #ssskashiwazaki #teamimezi #niigatahillclimb #shigakogenhillclimb
 

OreoCookie

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So time attack is “just” trying to set a PB on that particular climb? Sounds like a fun way to train, and should teach a lot, e. g. when to add power to keep momentum and when to use a feature to rest a little.

Judging from the picture in the Strava activity you posted here, his W/kg must be through the roof … 🤯
 
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