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OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
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that's trainer road levels? (minor question)
Yes, the latest version surfaces what they call progression levels for different power zones, e. g. endurance, sweet spot, threshold and VO2max. Their workouts are rated as well, so you or their software can match workouts that are suitable to where you are.
By the way @OreoCookie, what are your TR levels? They must be pretty high for the average power you are doing relative to your FTP.
I am still only in the twos because I don't TR workouts consistently enough, despite my current FTP setting probably being a little low.
I should probably knock them up to the mid threes.
The pre-base base phase really did wonders. I did 6 weeks of their polarized plans, which was tough medicine (mentally). At they end they had me do 4 x 16 minutes at threshold. In addition, it had me do lots of endurance workouts, so my PLs for the lower power zones are quite high.

Current FTP: 329 W (4.4 W/kg)

Endurance: 6.2
Tempo: 6.1
Sweet Spot: 7.8
Threshold: 5.9
VO2max: 4.7
Anaerobic: 1.0
Sprint: 1.0

In two days TR has a PL 9.0 Sweet Spot workout 😱 scheduled for me. Revenge for finding level 7.8 easy, I guess. On the other hand, I failed one threshold workout last week — I had to postpone one workout so I had to do it right after a hard sweet spot without a day of rest in between. Perhaps I should do an FTP test in the middle of the cycle.

Regarding levels, do you find that they are a good match for you? 2s are quite low, and the number of workouts in that region gets pretty scarce. Another option is to lower your FTP or retest. Or if you find your workouts too easy, try a stretch workout to manually reset the levels. I remember I had to do that with endurance workouts when I started with Adaptive Training: because it would never give me challenging endurance workouts, I was just stuck at these low levels forever.
It still seems a little strange that they knock your levels down when your FTP goes down, rather than just keeping them the same.
That’s weird, yes.
 

baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
1,326
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Just like I thought, TR sprint training is absolutely garbage. Hahaha.
Impressed endurance is that high... Endurance workouts that high must be very boring, given how boring the low level ones are.

My workouts are generally too easy. You are right, doing a stretch or breakthrough is the best way to bump the levels up. I have done that once or twice.
Having to manually intervene like this makes AT seem a little silly. Train Now, meanwhile, only gives you workouts at your current levels, so there's no bump, so you never get to do challenging workouts that actually cause gains.
 

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
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My workouts are generally too easy. You are right, doing a stretch or breakthrough is the best way to bump the levels up. I have done that once or twice.
Having to manually intervene like this makes AT seem a little silly. Train Now, meanwhile, only gives you workouts at your current levels, so there's no bump, so you never get to do challenging workouts that actually cause gains.
I think TR is very conservative on its progression side. After failing my workout (I managed to complete 4.5 out of 5 intervals), it chopped off 1.4 progression points and added a recovery workout for today. (My workouts are shifted by one day, so my Saturday workout is scheduled for Friday, etc.) On my first season of AT, I would have to persuade AT at times, too.

I think my endurance PL would be very different still if TR would score outdoor rides, which at present it does not. I can't really be on the trainer for more than 3 hours. After 2:30 I get a bit antsy and want to get over with it. Plus, because everything is more rigid, discomfort at the contact points rises, too.
Just like I thought, TR sprint training is absolutely garbage. Hahaha.
Sprint training only happens in the Specialty phase and I think you can only practice proper technique outdoors. On my old trainer, the belt would slip if I stomped on the pedals too hard.
 

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
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So the PL 9.2 sweet spot workout was too ambitious. I pulled the plug after the first 25-second 494 W spike. I could have done more, but not the entire workout. Instead, I opted for a PL 8.6 workout that was between Hard and Very Hard. That’s probably where I am at. I spent 3 x 20 minutes at 94 %/93 %/94 % of FTP. 💦
 

baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
1,326
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So the PL 9.2 sweet spot workout was too ambitious. I pulled the plug after the first 25-second 494 W spike. I could have done more, but not the entire workout. Instead, I opted for a PL 8.6 workout that was between Hard and Very Hard. That’s probably where I am at. I spent 3 x 20 minutes at 94 %/93 %/94 % of FTP. 💦
yeah, that workout was absurd. lol.
 

luka

Maximum Pace
Jan 13, 2015
2,231
2,067
this is not cycling specific training, but if you wanna bulletproof your posterior chain (calves, hams, glutes) it is hard to beat the nordic curls. took me about 10 months to be able to do them unassisted for several reps like this, and still the form leaves a lot of room for improvement. but they work I can tell you
 

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andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
3,077
3,301
For me December is the time to start riding the trainer. Years ago I did 3h endurance rides on the rollers watching the Godfather. These days I try to just stick to high intensity. Keep the endurance with cross training.

This week's training blog link and cut and paste below.

Cheers, Andy



「winter training switch / the day after christmas」

this week's training blog
今週のトレーニングブログです
変な日本語すみません!

after a block of 3 races
it's time to switch to winter training
the first step is to ride the indoor trainer (outdoors!)
x3レースのブロックの後に
冬のトレーニングに入ります
最初のステップは、インドアトレーナー(アウトドアで!)

I will also do
あとやりたいのは
☆running
☆hiking / snowshoes
☆strength work
☆swimming

Monday: recovery
Tuesday: recovery
Wednesday: zwift intervals x 2
Thursday: zwift intervals
Friday: bike & hike (mt. kurohime & mt. hachikoku)
Saturday: zwift intervals
Sunday: race

a local race tomorrow
but the legs are tender after yesterday's hike
明日は角田でローカルレースです
昨日のハイキングの後のダメージが多いけど···

the next real race is fukushima airport on december 26
can I get up at 3am for a 3h drive the night after christmas???
次のビッグレースは12月26日の福島空港です
クリスマスの次の日だ!
午前3時に起きて3時間のビッグドライブができるかい?

here we go!
がんばります!
#berdspokes #astutowheels #teamimezi #imezi #imezi167 #167grv #imezisealant #プロジェクト167 #exlub #cycleshopjyonnobitime #akagioffroadenduro #raphaprestige #grinduro #gfmyoko #nobeyamagravelchallenge
#ajocc
 

baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
1,326
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My new wheels and other bits arrived.
They are so light they feel like toys. Hahah.
I also got my first ever pair of Oakleys (at half the price they sell for in Japan, where only Asian Fit is available).
I also bought a new softer version of my ISM saddle for indoor training so I don't have to keep swapping between my road bike and my trainer bike.
Hopefully it will be even more comfortable during short indoor rides.
I ordered new taller gears for my track bike, but they aren't shipping until next month. Not like it matters much at this point in the year. Haha.
 

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
1,913
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Congrats. But your post is worthless without pictures! :p:cool:
I'm also getting myself a “new-used” mountain bike, thanks to @andywood's help. And @bloaker, the other MVP of this forum has someone who will take my old bike off of me.

Training goes well. I missed yesterday's endurance workout, because I had to pick up my mother-in-law from the airport the night before, check her into the hotel, make dinner, etc. It goes very well. I am very scared at the progress I make. I had to up my FTP manually to lower the progression levels as I had reached PL 9.0 in Sweet Spot and was offered a truly horrific looking workout that had 10 spikes for 25 seconds at 150 % FTP (yikes).
 

baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
1,326
944
Congrats. But your post is worthless without pictures! :p:cool:
I'm also getting myself a “new-used” mountain bike, thanks to @andywood's help. And @bloaker, the other MVP of this forum has someone who will take my old bike off of me.

Training goes well. I missed yesterday's endurance workout, because I had to pick up my mother-in-law from the airport the night before, check her into the hotel, make dinner, etc. It goes very well. I am very scared at the progress I make. I had to up my FTP manually to lower the progression levels as I had reached PL 9.0 in Sweet Spot and was offered a truly horrific looking workout that had 10 spikes for 25 seconds at 150 % FTP (yikes).

Mmm, dimpling….
Still need tires and new rotors.
I am recovering from what seems to be my second cold in two weeks…
 

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Eric S

Cruising
May 3, 2017
3
1
It's amazing what consistent and structured training can do. Before I bought my smart trainer and starting doing workouts on Zwift, I was afraid I'd "mikka bozu" and then I'd have a $900 paperweight, as was the case with my Minoura rollers. Nope. Turns out I actually love training as long as I get real numerical feedback on my effort and progress.

Now I wish I had got a power meter or a smart trainer years ago. Let's just say that the wattage that was hard to do for 10 minutes when I started is now roughly the top end of Z2.

After I drop a few more KGs I plan on racing. I might already be ready for a pancake flat race, but those are far and few between in Japan.

I have actually almost entirely stopped riding outside because indoor training is so much more convenient. I guess I need to buy a power meter.

Anyway..... anyone else is doing structured training of some sort? What sort of gains have you made?
Just curious, what $900 trainer do you have? I’m thinking of getting one and doing my research.
 

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
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Just curious, what $900 trainer do you have? I’m thinking of getting one and doing my research.
While you didn‘t ask me, but I got an Elite Suito recently. In Japan it cost about ¥100,000, but in Europe it is far cheaper.
 

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
1,913
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To add to that, I think if good erg mode is important, then the Kickr Core is probably the best value. It regulates resistance electromagnetically, which is much faster than the electromechanical mechanism the Suito uses. I got the Suito, because it is cheaper and it turns out I use resistance mode for workouts close to my FTP or above. I only use erg mode for endurance workouts. So it is not a big limitation for me. (I only use TrainerRoad and have never used Zwift.)
 

Eric S

Cruising
May 3, 2017
3
1
To add to that, I think if good erg mode is important, then the Kickr Core is probably the best value. It regulates resistance electromagnetically, which is much faster than the electromechanical mechanism the Suito uses. I got the Suito, because it is cheaper and it turns out I use resistance mode for workouts close to my FTP or above. I only use erg mode for endurance workouts. So it is not a big limitation for me. (I only use TrainerRoad and have never used Zwift.)
Thanks for adding the comment. I’m debating which to buy. I was looking into either the Suito or Kickr core. But also looking into possibly splurging and getting the higher price pointed Saris H3, Direto XR, Kickr.
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
3,077
3,301
Mmm, dimpling….
Still need tires and new rotors.
I am recovering from what seems to be my second cold in two weeks…

Two great things that trickled down from golf? Lead weights for wheel balancing and dimples!

You'll never find faster wheels than dimpled Zipps.

I know, I've tried!

Andy

20211120_145944.jpg
 
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