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andywood

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No, different climbs at different altitudes. They just take me similar amounts of time to complete.
My average cadence for the whole climb was 75. Considering how easy 260 watts is to do on the flat at 85+ RPMs, I strongly suspect gearing is slowing me down.

I have 52/36 and 11-30, but really need something like an 11-34 so I have the option to spin up steep climbs.... especially when I am just crawling.
I will need to change the rear derailleur to use a cassette that big, though. And right now is not really the time to buy bike parts.
That, or just loose the 10 kg I've been trying to lose for several years now. Haha.

I don't know what rear derailleur you are using, but if you want to upsize cheaply, you can buy the cheapest long cage derailleur and switch the cages. I did this when I first started CX 2 years ago.

Andy
 

OreoCookie

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A cheaper alternative to the SRAM 11-36 is the Sunrace Csrx1. It's got 1 tooth gaps on the top 3 sprockets
11 – 12 – 13 – 15 – 17 – 19 – 21 – 24 – 28 – 32 – 36T
I had one on my bike and it shifted fine with an R7000 long cage (no extender)
Nice, good to know there are alternatives. The gearing looks identical to SRAM’s cassette, which is good.

My brother used a Sunrace cassette when he converted his mountain bike to 1x.
Extender or no, my short cage derailleur doesn’t have enough range for anything more than 30, officially. 32 might fit but you have to remember not to cross chain it. Derailleurs aren’t that expensive, though.
Perhaps you can just change the cage. Otherwise, like you wrote, you can just change the rear derailleur.
I can push 300 watts if I can spin 90 rpms. I run out of gears pretty much at about 5%.
Then you should gear accordingly, me thinks.
I can’t give up the high-end gearing of a 52-11, though.
Are you sure?
Even at 90 rpm the difference between 50:11 and 52:11 is a mere 2.1 km/h (54.8 km/h vs. 52.7 km/h on 28 mm 700c tires). What cadences do you prefer at high speeds? Typically, people’s cadences tend to increase because of the increased rotational inertia. My self-selected cadence at high speeds is 95–106 rpm.

As a matter of principle, I think for most people it is better to err on the side of having more and easier climbing gears.
I wonder if an asymmetric inner ring might help… I would worry about power accuracy, though.
Asymmetric rings are not a replacement for easier gears, and you’d grind at the same low cadences as standard, symmetric rings. At best the difference will be marginal. But asymmetric rings won’t make climbing at 55 rpm pleasant.
 

baribari

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May 28, 2010
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I don't know what rear derailleur you are using, but if you want to upsize cheaply, you can buy the cheapest long cage derailleur and switch the cages. I did this when I first started CX 2 years ago.

Andy
I had considered this. I have an R7000 SS. I figured I might as well buy an Ultegra one...Haha. Actually, R7000 GS are really cheap on Yahoo Auctions...

Are you sure?
Even at 90 rpm the difference between 50:11 and 52:11 is a mere 2.1 km/h (54.8 km/h vs. 52.7 km/h on 28 mm 700c tires). What cadences do you prefer at high speeds? Typically, people’s cadences tend to increase because of the increased rotational inertia. My self-selected cadence at high speeds is 95–106 rpm.
I don't like spinning while going downhill. I also like being able to push a relatively large gear on flats or slight downhills.
 

OreoCookie

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Dec 2, 2017
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I don't like spinning while going downhill. I also like being able to push a relatively large gear on flats or slight downhills.
What is your self-selected cadence when you are going quick on the flats? How fast do you go on (false) flats when the conditions are right? (I reckon you can hang in at 50 km/h if you want to or when part of a quick peloton.) At what speed do you still want to be able to pedal? And what is more important to you, not having to grind on the climbs or spinning out a little earlier on downhills?
 

baribari

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Let's just say that 50-11 doesn't feel like enough and 54-11 would be too much. The real issue is that a 36 small ring is too big. Hehe.
 

andywood

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Apr 8, 2008
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On my time trial bike I have a 55 x 11.

On a TT bike this makes sense as you are always in the same aero position even when descending.

However on a road bike, there is the cut off speed where getting aero on the bike will make you faster. This is unique to each rider. So it is worth finding your own number.

For circuit races like Gunma CSC, knowing when to stop pedaling and therefore start resting, is really important.

Andy
 
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OreoCookie

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However on a road bike, there is the cut off speed where getting aero on the bike will make you faster. This is unique to each rider. So it is worth finding your own number.
I think practically speaking, there are several scenarios that influence how I think about pedaling and gearing: I distinguish between high-power cruise speed, top speed on (true or close to) flats and my cutoff speed. Even if you have mechanical gearing, you can learn what gearing you use at what typical cadences by paying attention. SRAM‘s AXS app makes that a little easier, though.

In my experience, which is backed up by data, I am cruising in my 42:13 or 43:15 a lot. The 12- and 11-tooth cogs see a lot less action than the 10-tooth cog, because they are in between false flat/downhill gearing and my high-power cruise gears. When I decided on my gearing, I wanted to be geared to comfortably do my best-case speeds (about 50–52 km/h) at my preferred cadence. And the top-end speed checked out, too. Beyond 62–65 km/h I tuck in anyway.

What I am losing with my setup is a little bit of efficiency. I could save a few watts with larger cogs, yes. But climbing gears are more important to me every day of the week.
 

baribari

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May 28, 2010
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A 52:11 basically lets me stay comfortable when I am in the aero bars, with a tailwind, and going downhill slightly.... so up to about 60 km/h. On the other hand, a 36/30 isn't enough to keep me comfortable above six or seven percent. So I guess I will look into getting a Sunrace 11-34 or 36 and a GS derailleur.
 

andywood

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Apr 8, 2008
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Another week of training done. Didn't think too much, just enjoyed it. On Tuesday we rode the Kakuda trail, the winery sandroads, the gravel climb, hiked the mountain, and jumped into the sea. After the hike, my legs were tender until today!

The usual blog link and cut and paste below.

Cheers, Andy


「transition」

last week's training blog
先週のトレーニングブログです
変な日本語すみません!

we were lucky to ride gran fondo myoko
the other two gravel events
grinduro and nobeyama gravel challenge
have both been cancelled
グランフォンド妙高に参加できたよかった
もう2つのグラベルイベント
グリンデューロと野辺山グラベルチャレンジ
2つとも中止になりました

so it's time to lock onto cyclocross
strip the bike down
relearn the skills
それで、シクロクロスにロックオンする時が来ました
バイクをストリップダウンして
スキルを再学習する

30km on the kakuda trail?
like 150km on the road!
角田トレイルの30km?
ロードの150km位の疲れ!

☆monday: rest
☆tuesday: CX & hike 30km / 800m
☆wednesday: road 200km / 1,500m
☆thursday: road 85km / 600m
☆friday: road 85km / 1,200m
☆saturday: rest / CX skills 10km
☆sunday: kakuda CX 30km

☆20h, 430km, 4,600m

how many cyclocross races can I join?
I don't really know
but the interesting training with friends is enough to keep me motivated
シクロクロスレースはどのぐらい参加できるか?
よくわからない
でも友達との面白いトレーニングすると
十分モチベーションになる

☆riding into cross!

#berdspokes #astutowheels #teamimezi #imezi #imezi167 #167grv #imezisealant #プロジェクト167 #exlub #cycleshopjyonnobitime #akagioffroadenduro #raphaprestige #grinduro #gfmyoko #nobeyamagravelchallenge
#ajocc
 

OreoCookie

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Dec 2, 2017
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@andywood, like clockwork, 20 hours on the bike just like that.

I‘m still on a broken-trainer-related rest week. I have placed an order for an Elite Suito, which should arrive soon.

I did go out for an easy 3-hour ride on Monday and a hard 5-hour ride on Thursday. If I had gotten up an hour earlier on Thursday, I would have climbed Mt. Zao all the way rather than half way. But 500 m in one go is still very nice, I love climbing. And it is a nice one: because it is so long, you can‘t just VO2max over that thing, and in some places the gradients get quite steep. Even climbing at 300ish W (I needed to pace myself) I had to grind in a few places. But my legs felt great. Overall, I did 76 km and 1,250 m of climbing and 110 km and 2,000 m, respectively. Felt good.

However, I was wondering one thing: I think I am leaving speed on the table. I only averaged 28 and 26 km/h for the rides. Granted, it was windy on Thursday, but on the other hand I did even manage to get into the top-10 in two flatter Strava segments (without trying, I literally did not know about these segments). I see plenty of other riders in my area who with less power manage higher average power (yes, they are lighter, but that doesn‘t help so much on the flats).
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
2,992
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@andywood, like clockwork, 20 hours on the bike just like that.

I‘m still on a broken-trainer-related rest week. I have placed an order for an Elite Suito, which should arrive soon.

I did go out for an easy 3-hour ride on Monday and a hard 5-hour ride on Thursday. If I had gotten up an hour earlier on Thursday, I would have climbed Mt. Zao all the way rather than half way. But 500 m in one go is still very nice, I love climbing. And it is a nice one: because it is so long, you can‘t just VO2max over that thing, and in some places the gradients get quite steep. Even climbing at 300ish W (I needed to pace myself) I had to grind in a few places. But my legs felt great. Overall, I did 76 km and 1,250 m of climbing and 110 km and 2,000 m, respectively. Felt good.

However, I was wondering one thing: I think I am leaving speed on the table. I only averaged 28 and 26 km/h for the rides. Granted, it was windy on Thursday, but on the other hand I did even manage to get into the top-10 in two flatter Strava segments (without trying, I literally did not know about these segments). I see plenty of other riders in my area who with less power manage higher average power (yes, they are lighter, but that doesn‘t help so much on the flats).

When I was training for TTs, all I cared about was speed. Over a given specific effort, more speed for less watts is the holy grail.

But in a general training ride, I think to look at average speed is counterproductive. Averaging 30kph for 100km is great. But it's just a medio effort. It is good for training for enduros. But not much else.

In a training ride, short efforts at 40kph + . Recovery at 20kph. And an average of 25kph is much more beneficial for almost all kinds of cycling performance.

So the golden rule for me is never look at average speed unless that is all I am gunning for.

Andy
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
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Another week of training done.

I am focusing on CX now. But it still feels like summer.

I need to shake up the training to be more specific for winter racing despite the warm sunshine.

The usual training blog link and cut and paste below.

Cheers, Andy


「3 important points of cyclocross」

last week's training blog
先週のトレーニングブログです
変な日本語すみません!

it's still like summer
but I want to think about cyclocross
to be good at cyclocross this winter, there are 3 important points:
まだ夏みたいですね!
でも冬のシクロクロスのこと考えないと!
冬のシクロクロスのために3つの重要なポイントがある:

☆1. skills and stamina
I need to go hard for 30 or 40 minutes
but unlike a TT
I need to have technical ability within this effort too
corners, climbs, descents, sand banks, chicanes
the kakuda trail is the perfect training ground
☆1 スキルとスタミナ
30分か40分頑張る必要がある
しかしTTと違う
その時間の間にバイクスキルが必要です
コーナー、登り、下り、サンドバンク、シケイン
角田トレイルは最高なトレーニング場です

☆2. top end
I need to do short bursts
I built a huge base this summer
now is the time to tune the engine!
intervals, intervals, intervals
☆2 トップエンド
短いバーストをする必要がある
今年の夏に大きなベースを作った
今こそエンジンをチューンアップする時です!
インターバル、インターバル、インターバル

☆3. strength
nothing hurts more than a CX race
I need to be physically stronger
hiking again this week
I also need to add strength training and running
☆3 ストレンス
CXレースに全体が痛くなる
身体的に強くなる必要がある
今週もハイキング
筋トレとランニングもトレーニングに入りたい

☆monday: HIIT intervals 60km / 1,100m
☆tuesday: road 70km / 600m
☆wednesday: HIIT intervals 45km
☆thursday: road 60km / 1,200m
☆friday: recovery 25km
☆saturday: kakuda CX and hike 25km / 800m
☆sunday: sprint intervals 60km

☆15h, 330km, 3,700m

☆time to tune the engine for CX!

#berdspokes #astutowheels #teamimezi #imezi #imezi167 #167grv #imezisealant #プロジェクト167 #exlub #cycleshopjyonnobitime #akagioffroadenduro #raphaprestige #grinduro #gfmyoko #nobeyamagravelchallenge
#ajocc
 

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
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So the golden rule for me is never look at average speed unless that is all I am gunning for.
The thing is that I notice I am slower than many others given my level of effort. And that day I was pacing for high average speed. True, it didn't help that I was climbing over 2,000 m that day, including a very steep 500 m climb where in parts I'd need 300+ W just to keep the pedals turning and reach 10-11 km/h. But still.
 

OreoCookie

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Dec 2, 2017
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Yay! My trainer was delivered today and it seems far quieter than my Elite Volano. I went for the Elite Suito, i. e. the cheaper option. I've just spent 5 minutes on it, and it is very quiet. But I'll need to get used to larger jumps in power. It is definitely a bit laggy when you go for e. g. 300 W to 450+ W, so it seems there is a learning curve. Of course, I could put it in resistance mode, too. I'll have to see which suits my style better.

@andywood
Congratulations on yet another training week. You hit it out of the park.
 

baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
1,270
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I have (technically two) hill climbs on Sunday. They'll probably be about 30 minutes each. I think I will put a camera on my bike to make sure I flog myself proper.
Naturally I haven't lost a single kilogram of weight...and if anything I have put weight on despite being pretty good about my diet for the last week or so.
 

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
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I have (technically two) hill climbs on Sunday. They'll probably be about 30 minutes each. I think I will put a camera on my bike to make sure I flog myself proper.
Good luck for the races. Are you planning to upload the footage to Youtube? If so, can you post a link here?
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
2,992
3,176
Yay! My trainer was delivered today and it seems far quieter than my Elite Volano. I went for the Elite Suito, i. e. the cheaper option. I've just spent 5 minutes on it, and it is very quiet. But I'll need to get used to larger jumps in power. It is definitely a bit laggy when you go for e. g. 300 W to 450+ W, so it seems there is a learning curve. Of course, I could put it in resistance mode, too. I'll have to see which suits my style better.

@andywood
Congratulations on yet another training week. You hit it out of the park.

Cheers!

We bought a house this week, more space, no neighbours, so I was thinking of buying a nice trainer to bring my winter training indoors.

But then there is still the appeal of doing it semi outdoors to give the missus a sense that I am 「ganbatteiru」 and not just playing video games in the other room!

Andy
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
2,992
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I have (technically two) hill climbs on Sunday. They'll probably be about 30 minutes each. I think I will put a camera on my bike to make sure I flog myself proper.
Naturally I haven't lost a single kilogram of weight...and if anything I have put weight on despite being pretty good about my diet for the last week or so.

Looking forward to hearing all about it!

Andy
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
2,992
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Another week of training done.

Probably the least volume I've done in a long while. But with a CX race in 3 weeks time, it's all about specificity and getting the prep done.

The usual blog link and cut and paste below.

Cheers, Andy


「adaptation towards CX」

after the autumn gravel rides are cancelled
I put my focus on cyclocross
秋のグラベルイベントがキャンセルされた後
シクロクロスにロックオンにしています

☆intervals
☆running
☆mountain hiking
☆and of course cyclocross training!
☆インターバル
☆ランニング
☆登山
☆そしてもちろんシクロクロストレーニング!

last week I did intervals twice
I ran three times
climbed mt. kakuda for the third time
and cx training too
先週はインターバルx2
ランx3
角田山のハイキング(3回目)
そしてCXトレーニング

muscle damage is less as the body adapts
ランやハイキングの後の筋肉ダメージが少しずつ楽になっている

☆Monday: road 70km, 500m
☆Tuesday: run 5km, cx skills
☆Wednesday: intervals 30km
☆Thursday: run 6.5km, cx skills
☆Friday: intervals (abort) 45km
☆Saturday: cx race pace, mt. kakuda hike
☆Sunday: run 3km

I made a new CX course on the beach
lots of sand
it's a hard course
but I can feel my strength and skills improving
ビーチで新しいCXコースを作りました
たくさんの砂
難しいコースです
力とスキルアップすると良い

kakuda trail with ito chan too
to ride this trail
and to ride with someone faster than you
is the best training
角田でイトちゃんとトレイルライドへ
そのトレイルで走る
そして自分より速い人と走る
最高のトレーニングになる

the first race is iiyama on october 31
we made a course to replicate this
shouldering the bike for two climbs
surprised to do sub 17 minute laps
getting faster!
10月31日の飯山CXのためにコースを作りました
2回の登りで自転車を肩に乗せても
17分のラップタイムを切れる
速くなるよ!

3 weeks to race day!
レースまで3週間!

#berdspokes #astutowheels #teamimezi #imezi #imezi167 #167grv #imezisealant #プロジェクト167 #exlub #cycleshopjyonnobitime #akagioffroadenduro #raphaprestige #grinduro #gfmyoko #nobeyamagravelchallenge
#ajocc
 

baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
1,270
894
Good luck for the races. Are you planning to upload the footage to Youtube? If so, can you post a link here?
I might send you a private video once I can edit on a power overlay.

I did 310 ish for 21 minutes or so and then 296 or so for 22 minutes or so. I got 2nd out of five in my class (BMI 26+) but lost by about four minutes in total and only got 2nd by three seconds…. I flogged my self proper for the first run, but my legs were fried and I popped in the last kilo or so in the second.

My throat is wrecked, hahaha.

My Garnin bumped my FTP up to 294.
 
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