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OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
1,770
1,574
@andywood
Quick question on outdoor Z2 rides: for longer rides, does it suffice to stick to my heart rate zones or should I really, really try to stick to the power zones? It feels kind of unnatural to stick to power zones when I e. g. encounter a small kicker or so, it is much more natural and much more fun to conserve momentum.
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
2,978
3,165
@andywood
Quick question on outdoor Z2 rides: for longer rides, does it suffice to stick to my heart rate zones or should I really, really try to stick to the power zones? It feels kind of unnatural to stick to power zones when I e. g. encounter a small kicker or so, it is much more natural and much more fun to conserve momentum.

I generally use HR for anything other than intervals. This is yesterday's zone 1 ride for example.

Andy

Screenshot_20210913-082850_Strava.jpg
 

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
1,770
1,574
Ok, good.
Heart rate-wise it was definitely Z2 (94 % or so Z1 or Z2), but power-wise I spent more time in Z3 than perhaps I should have. (It was 700 m of climbing over 50ish km.)

In principle, it’d be much simpler to stay within the power targets as well if I stuck to coastal roads. But these are no fun where I live, too much traffic, too many traffic lights and no nice scenery (lots of industrial buildings and the like).
 

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
1,770
1,574
Stretch goal accomplished. This morning I tested at 342 W. I expected as much since I knew an extra 30 seconds would amount to a 7 W bump in my FTP. But it was hard fought this time. :nose: Now I will shift my focus to other goals for the remainder of the season.

I’m still unsure what to do with my offseason. It’ll fall close to the time window where my wife‘s c-section is likely going to fall, so that’s good timing I reckon. To avoid any temptation to train, I’ll have my bike serviced in the shop.
 

baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
1,262
887
Stretch goal accomplished. This morning I tested at 342 W. I expected as much since I knew an extra 30 seconds would amount to a 7 W bump in my FTP. But it was hard fought this time. :nose: Now I will shift my focus to other goals for the remainder of the season.

I’m still unsure what to do with my offseason. It’ll fall close to the time window where my wife‘s c-section is likely going to fall, so that’s good timing I reckon. To avoid any temptation to train, I’ll have my bike serviced in the shop.
Bash your brains against the wall over the winter so you can actually do 342 for 30 minutes by spring!
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
2,978
3,165
A quiet training week as I get myself ready for tomorrow's race.

As a 3 man team, you only need to be as strong as your weakest rider! Which this year isn't me!

However, I love the tapering process. My aim is to do long steady pulls on the rolling terrain for the benefit of the team.

I practiced this last Sunday and bonked on the last climb, so I'm doing a good carbo load and will add even more goodies to my race day bento.

Usual training blog link cut and paste below.

Cheers, Andy


「taper week」

last week's training blog
先週のトレーニングブログです
変な日本語すみません!

the week before a race you can't get fitter
all you can do is bring out the form
レースの前の週はフィットネスアップができません
レースウィークにフォームを引き出すだけです

this is done by
1. cutting the volume in half
and dropping the fatigue
やり方は
1.ボリュームを半分にカットします
倦怠感を落とします

2. doing short intervals to keep fitness
the number of intervals decreases each day
2.フィットネスをキープするために短いインターバルをする
インターバルの数は毎日減少します

☆monday: zone 1, 30km / 100m
☆tuesday: zone 1, 30s x 7, 65km / 300m
☆wednesday: zone 1, 1 min x 6, 50km / 300m
☆thursday: equipment testing 45km / 1,000m
☆friday: bike shakedown, 1 min x 3, 35km / 400m
☆saturday: rest
☆sunday: race

☆11h, 220km, 2,000m
(plus race @ 7h, 150km, 4,000m
☆18h, 370km, 6,000m)

after cutting the training
stetch, massage, carboloading and equipment check
トレーニングをカットした後
ストレッチ、マッサージ、カーボローディング、機器チェック

☆like a bull at a gate!
☆門の雄牛のように!

#berdspokes #astutowheels #teamimezi #imezi #imezi167 #167grv #imezisealant #プロジェクト167 #exlub #cycleshopjyonnobitime #akagioffroadenduro #raphaprestige #grinduro #gfmyoko #nobeyamagravelchallenge
#ajocc
 
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andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
2,978
3,165
Not unless it's in a hill climb or a TT!
Of course, I didn't/wouldn't/couldn't do my estimated FTP for a ~1 hour hill climb... My pacing was incredibly consistent, though.

On race day I usually pace those kind of efforts with heart rate, assuming I'm properly rested.

If I was to race both TTs and HCs concurrently, and pace with power, I would determine two FTP values, as it's much easier to generate power in the latter position.

For TTs I was always looking for "more speed with less power". For HCs it's just "power to weight".

Andy
 

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
1,770
1,574
Nooo, it looks like my trainer died. It isn’t dead-dead, but a bearing is shot and especially at slower flywheel speeds my frame and the trainer vibrate heavily. I don’t want to know what my neighbors will hear.

So it seems I’ll finish my training plan early. I reached out to my LBS, hoping they have a trainer in stock. I also checked the classifieds here, because someone put a Suito up for sale. But it seems the ad has been pulled. I‘m lucky that I saved up money for an Apple Watch … well, it seems I’ll have to wait till next year.
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
2,978
3,165
Nooo, it looks like my trainer died. It isn’t dead-dead, but a bearing is shot and especially at slower flywheel speeds my frame and the trainer vibrate heavily. I don’t want to know what my neighbors will hear.

So it seems I’ll finish my training plan early. I reached out to my LBS, hoping they have a trainer in stock. I also checked the classifieds here, because someone put a Suito up for sale. But it seems the ad has been pulled. I‘m lucky that I saved up money for an Apple Watch … well, it seems I’ll have to wait till next year.

If you have a power meter on your bike, why not just get a lasts for ever dumb trainer like Minoura or Cyclops? And then some Minoura rollers to add spice to the mix?!

If you shop wisely on yahoo auction, you'd probably still have change for your watch.

Andy
 

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
1,770
1,574
If you have a power meter on your bike, why not just get a lasts for ever dumb trainer like Minoura or Cyclops? And then some Minoura rollers to add spice to the mix?!
I have a dumb trainer right now. It is an Elite Volano, a direct drive fluid trainer, and it served me well. I would have liked to keep it until I move to my next job, but 2020 and 2021 haven’t been our luckiest of years. I hope my mountain bike will last another couple of months.
 

baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
1,262
887
I just went out and did the 50-minute climb right outside my window at a hard but sustainable pace. I more or less equaled what I did in my last 55-minute hill climb race. But I was still nearly 30-watts below my ramp test FTP. Hmm.

Maybe not having enough gearing for the climbs I do relative to my PWR might have something to do with it (it's hard on the legs to ride at threshold at 55 RPMs...).
 

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
1,770
1,574
I just went out and did the 50-minute climb right outside my window at a hard but sustainable pace. I more or less equaled what I did in my last 55-minute hill climb race. But I was still nearly 30-watts below my ramp test FTP. Hmm.
So you’re 5 minutes faster and use less power? Isn’t that great news? :D
Maybe not having enough gearing for the climbs I do relative to my PWR might have something to do with it (it's hard on the legs to ride at threshold at 55 RPMs...).
I saw that ride on Strava, nice work. What gearing do you have? IMHO most road bikes are still undergeared for average riders — and you’re clearly above average. What is your current gearing?
 
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andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
2,978
3,165
So you’re 5 minutes faster and use less power? Isn’t that great news? :D

I saw that ride on Strava, nice work. What gearing do you have? IMHO most road bikes are still undergeared for average riders — and you’re clearly above average.

My optimum gearing, through years of climbing, is 80 rpm. Many people are closer to 90 rpm.

If you can't hit your optimum cadence, then you definitely want to change your gearing.

Heavy gears are good for strength training now and again but for hard race type efforts you want to be in the correct cadence zone to get the best result and avoid injury.

Andy
 

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
1,770
1,574
My optimum gearing, through years of climbing, is 80 rpm. Many people are closer to 90 rpm.
Same here, 80-85 rpm is a good climbing cadence for me. I can do faster cadences more easily than slower cadences.

It‘s really amazing that manufacturers haven’t caught on yet. Two, three weeks ago I was doing a Z2 endurance ride outdoors where I dutifully stuck to Z2 power, but I had to grind. I think my average cadence up one particular Strava segment was 72ish rpm at 3.5 W/kg, which is more than I reckon most owners of bikes can put out. On the other hand most bike pack top gears that most users won’t be able to use properly. A 42:10 = 4.2 = 50:12 is more than sufficient for most, I reckon. Yes, there are situations where I spin out, but that’s at about 60–65 km/h. I don’t have André Greipel’s legs that propel him to 74 km/h in a sprint.

One solution would be a SRAM 11-36 cassette that still has 3 gears at the top end that are 1 cog apart. If you lower your chain ring size to 46/30, you still have the same ratios as with an 11-32 Shimano cassette sans top gear. Except that you now have two additional small gears.
Heavy gears are good for strength training now and again but for hard race type efforts you want to be in the correct cadence zone to get the best result and avoid injury.
If you want to do low cadence drills while climbing, all you need to do is shift up a gear or two. At higher speeds that can be an issue. If you are fast and really like to grind, then perhaps you need a very tall gear. But at least I didn’t notice that with @baribari, he was spinning more than just fine.
 

baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
1,262
887
So you’re 5 minutes faster and use less power? Isn’t that great news? :D

I saw that ride on Strava, nice work. What gearing do you have? IMHO most road bikes are still undergeared for average riders — and you’re clearly above average. What is your current gearing?
No, different climbs at different altitudes. They just take me similar amounts of time to complete.
My average cadence for the whole climb was 75. Considering how easy 260 watts is to do on the flat at 85+ RPMs, I strongly suspect gearing is slowing me down.

I have 52/36 and 11-30, but really need something like an 11-34 so I have the option to spin up steep climbs.... especially when I am just crawling.
I will need to change the rear derailleur to use a cassette that big, though. And right now is not really the time to buy bike parts.
That, or just loose the 10 kg I've been trying to lose for several years now. Haha.
 

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
1,770
1,574
No, different climbs at different altitudes. They just take me similar amounts of time to complete.
My average cadence for the whole climb was 75. Considering how easy 260 watts is to do on the flat at 85+ RPMs, I strongly suspect gearing is slowing me down.
I have never heard any cyclist say they wished they had one less gear.
I have 52/36 and 11-30, but really need something like an 11-34 so I have the option to spin up steep climbs....
I don't think Shimano's 11-34 is great for road bikes (unless we are talking about the 12-speed version). It has no gears that are 1 cog apart, yet you have less range than SRAM's 11-36 cassette. An 11-36 cassette would be the first investment I'd make.
especially when I am just crawling.
I don't think so. What are you at W/kg-wise at the moment. I think if you are above 3–3.5 you are fitter than a lot of the road bikers I see. (And I know you can push 300 W no problem.)

Plus, cycling should be fun, not (unnecessary) suffering.
I will need to change the rear derailleur to use a cassette that big, though. And right now is not really the time to buy bike parts.
That, or just loose the 10 kg I've been trying to lose for several years now. Haha.
You could get an extender (e. g. by Wolftooth). The original costs ¥2,700 on Wiggle. But you can find similar extenders for less. Some people claim it isn't necessary, but I don't know if I want to push my luck.

I think you are looking at an investment of ¥13,000, perhaps less if look around a bit. SRAM cassettes tend to be unreasonably expensive in Japan.
 

baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
1,262
887
Extender or no, my short cage derailleur doesn’t have enough range for anything more than 30, officially. 32 might fit but you have to remember not to cross chain it. Derailleurs aren’t that expensive, though.

I can push 300 watts if I can spin 90 rpms. I run out of gears pretty much at about 5%. I can’t give up the high-end gearing of a 52-11, though.

I wonder if an asymmetric inner ring might help… I would worry about power accuracy, though.
 

Winston Leg-Thigh

Maximum Pace
Mar 31, 2015
170
184
A cheaper alternative to the SRAM 11-36 is the Sunrace Csrx1. It's got 1 tooth gaps on the top 3 sprockets
11 – 12 – 13 – 15 – 17 – 19 – 21 – 24 – 28 – 32 – 36T
I had one on my bike and it shifted fine with an R7000 long cage (no extender)
 
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