Article The lengths some people go to

fredstaple

Speeding Up
Nov 1, 2009
198
1
38
Puerto de la Santa Maria
#3
Wow..

..HGH, EPO, Coaches, Wind Tunnel Testing, Hypoxic machine, bikes and all the other gear to race as a Cat 5/4/3/2. How can you generate that kind of cash. Over $12,000.00 a year in doping. Blows my mind. Lots of people do not even make that much money a year.

At least he admitted to it, unlike most.
 

FarEast

Maximum Pace
May 25, 2009
5,528
538
193
Yokohama
#4
Not really - just look at these forums, out of the regulars here we have maybe 10 riders that race and maybe 3 of those that race in JCF events.

Yet we have a lot of members that are doing some serious number crunching LTH this, 5's peak that, weight weenies lusting over the lightest and tightest hardware and prepared to drop some serious money on it and members that watch thier weight closer than a super model and why?

So they can commute to work 5 seconds faster than the day before or get up that hill quicker than the other guy on a social ride?

Very easy to scratch your head and wonder why the hell was this guy doing what he did, yet to some degree many of us are trapped in the same situation.

Just ask non cycling friends thier opinion on the money you've spent and the distances you ride and see what they say. (the classic one that blows thier minds is telling them how much you paid for carbon bottle cages)
 

GSAstuto

Maximum Pace
Oct 11, 2009
945
242
103
tokyo
www.roadfixie.com
#6
AMEN!!!

p.s. My weight weenie bottle cages set you back less than the cost of a Belgian Pint in Japan.

..now then - was I supposed to take 2gr of this supplement and then a shot in my arse BEFORE I ride, or after?


Not really - just look at these forums, out of the regulars here we have maybe 10 riders that race and maybe 3 of those that race in JCF events.

Yet we have a lot of members that are doing some serious number crunching LTH this, 5's peak that, weight weenies lusting over the lightest and tightest hardware and prepared to drop some serious money on it and members that watch thier weight closer than a super model and why?

So they can commute to work 5 seconds faster than the day before or get up that hill quicker than the other guy on a social ride?

Very easy to scratch your head and wonder why the hell was this guy doing what he did, yet to some degree many of us are trapped in the same situation.

Just ask non cycling friends thier opinion on the money you've spent and the distances you ride and see what they say. (the classic one that blows thier minds is telling them how much you paid for carbon bottle cages)
 

j-sworks

Maximum Pace
Feb 5, 2012
1,199
48
68
Tokyo
#7
Not really - just look at these forums, out of the regulars here we have maybe 10 riders that race and maybe 3 of those that race in JCF events.

Yet we have a lot of members that are doing some serious number crunching LTH this, 5's peak that, weight weenies lusting over the lightest and tightest hardware and prepared to drop some serious money on it and members that watch thier weight closer than a super model and why?

So they can commute to work 5 seconds faster than the day before or get up that hill quicker than the other guy on a social ride?

Very easy to scratch your head and wonder why the hell was this guy doing what he did, yet to some degree many of us are trapped in the same situation.

Just ask non cycling friends thier opinion on the money you've spent and the distances you ride and see what they say. (the classic one that blows thier minds is telling them how much you paid for carbon bottle cages)
Agreed, it is easy to fall into the trap of thinking that you can buy your way to better riding, but the truth is that you just have to work on your fitness and try hard.

I'm still kinda new to the sport and the shops, media, and bike companies have a good handle on trying to get you to believe the hype. I can still remember the first time I was absolutely embarrassed by a old dude commuting home on a rusty old ten speed (me on my s-works Tarmac) I am lucky that I have some buddies that keep me grounded now.
 

bird

Speeding Up
Nov 30, 2010
322
18
38
Kawasaki
#9
The amount of money we put into equipment etc is one thing.
Yes, people sometimes laugh at me when they hear my carbon bike costs more than 30x more than those 9,800 JPY mamachari they use. But those same people are also amazed when they hear how I ride 200km a day just for fun or race the Azami line. Then they don't laugh at me anymore. I use my equipment for something worth it, competition or not.

But the article is not about how much money this guy spent; it's about how he crossed the line KNOWING that it's against the rule and how he ultimately lost the "feeling" he once had for the sport.
I have nothing on my concience. I'm glad I can enjoy the fun and pain of cycling with you guys. :)
 

joewein

Maximum Pace
Oct 25, 2011
2,442
910
133
Setagaya, Tokyo
joewein.net
#10
How can you generate that kind of cash. Over $12,000.00 a year in doping. Blows my mind. Lots of people do not even make that much money a year.
It says he was single and working as a software developer. Yes, he had an expensive hobby, but probably not ruinously expensive. An ex-colleague of mine was into motorbike racing, he was talking to us about how he went through a set of race tyres every weekend he races. "First Dude" Todd Palin famously claimed $9,000 per year in losses from his snow mobile racing "business".

Meanwhile, I am still cycling with 20 yen cotton gloves and a set of two tyres I ordered yesterday cost a little over 5,000 yen with shipping. Am I OK? :rolleyes:
 

GSAstuto

Maximum Pace
Oct 11, 2009
945
242
103
tokyo
www.roadfixie.com
#12
Yes - but think of all those Strava segments. It's really so silly now that someone can't just go out and enjoy a pedal through the hills with their mates without getting home and having 5 emails stacked up saying crap like 'Blaster Just Stole Your KOM, better get out there!' Of course there's an opt-in / out level. But cycling being what it is, does inspire competition. Hell, even today I had some jerk on a cross bike shoal me just so he could get off the signal a little quicker.

And with modern biochemistry where it is - I believe that actually doping is much more accessible and practical as a performance enhancer than it ever was. Back in the day you were messing with hardcore sh*+ , just pure amphetimines and stuff that basically addicts on the street were using. No distinction. Now - the stuff people use is specifically engineered for 'performance enhancement' - nothing more or less. There is a kinder, gentler edge to it. Almost grey area along with the myriad of supplements, etc. So, I can see where a YUPPIE Fred getting his weekend rocks off would be highly inclined along these lines.

I also did motorsports, lots , mainly Pro Ralley and tuning for openwheel cars (FA, F3000, FT, FF, etc) and weekend SCCA racers would do anything to win. Even cheat (perish the thought). But at least at SCCA there was an obligatory 'tear down' for ANY winning car. At the owner's expense. So, imagine having this at ANY JCRC or other sanctioned event. You win, you get 'torn down' . Meaning piss and blood test on the spot. In front of everyone. Bike gets torn down as well. ANY discrepency and you are immediately stripped of your results. PLUS - ANY Competitor may lodge a protest aginst you ANYTIME, which based on the Judge's discretion, could ALSO lead to a teardown. Win or not. The stakes the weekend SCCA guys were playing with make cyclists look like Walmart Shoppers on a budget. Even an entry level Formula Ford would cost near to $50k plus engine rebuilds at $10k a wack almost every other race. Plus tires at every race at $1000 /set. I charged min of $250-500 for race prep plus $200/mo just to stall a car at the paddock. So compared to cycle racing, autosports is way more expensive. The guy spending only 12k/yr on his PED's is cheap by comparison. In fact, I seriously doubt that figure. Knowing what I do know ... the cost of full , monitored 'biophysical support' is more like $5000 /mo. If they dug into this guy's actual spendings and habits , I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he was spending at least $50k - 100k a year.

Obviously he had some talent. To swing through the categories like he did showed alot of hard work, commitment and focus. That's the good part. The sad part is that it all fell apart for him. Will others take note of this? Probably not.

The really sad part is what about all the other competitors?? Are they all riding clean? Maybe he was just the 'unlucky' one that got caught out. Remember - he didn't dope specifically for this GF event - he just happened to be within the timeframe that detectable amounts would be present.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that they had drug testing at what is essentially a recreational "century" ride. :confused:
 

theBlob

Bokeh master
Sep 28, 2011
2,865
1,451
129
...
#14
I'm going to to have to get some testosterone to beat Takaaki up Shiraishi. The Whey powder is just not cutting it, not even with 38mm carbon wheels and Ultegra combo.:weight:

Life is too short to spend it losing all the time!:D
 

FarEast

Maximum Pace
May 25, 2009
5,528
538
193
Yokohama
#15
The amount of money we put into equipment etc is one thing.
Yes, people sometimes laugh at me when they hear my carbon bike costs more than 30x more than those 9,800 JPY mamachari they use. But those same people are also amazed when they hear how I ride 200km a day just for fun or race the Azami line. Then they don't laugh at me anymore. I use my equipment for something worth it, competition or not.

But the article is not about how much money this guy spent; it's about how he crossed the line KNOWING that it's against the rule and how he ultimately lost the "feeling" he once had for the sport.
I have nothing on my concience. I'm glad I can enjoy the fun and pain of cycling with you guys. :)

But that’s the thing - why do you need to ultimately spend all that money when you could easily just by a GIANT Defy or any other low end bike for 58,000 JPY?

the rider in the article hit a very important factor and that was his reasoning, what did you tell yourself when you dropped that amount of money on the bike, wheels, group set?

"I deserve it"
"I will only upgrade it later" etc,etc.

There are more reasons which many won't admit and that’s the social standing, many of us a riding DA, Ultegra and Super Record, that’s some serious money, but your also buying it because you hope that it is going to make you faster, give you that marginal gain or weight difference that will get you over that hill faster and give you the ‘Kudos’ and ‘Recognition’ we are all looking for?

Why else do we post our rides for everyone to see, dropping altitude gain and distance covered or for the hardcore trainers IF and TSS if not for social acceptance and accolade then what?

This leads to us trying to beat it, ride long, higher, faster – add STRAVA to the mix and now that adds a new element to the equation and ultimately turns every ride in to a race or sorts.

But it doesn’t stop once you dismount the bike, what about recovery drinks the protein shakes and creatine and other supplements that will enable you to recover faster, push harder and go longer?

Already our reasoning and mentality is on the same page as this guy - he is just much, much further up the ladder.

Some will never reach the point where they contemplate using PED's, some who race might have contemplated using or even gone over the edge, but as many will tell you it’s a very gradual process that starts at the very bottom of the ladder which we are all on.
 

GSAstuto

Maximum Pace
Oct 11, 2009
945
242
103
tokyo
www.roadfixie.com
#16
Really good points here! It's a very additive and addictive effect. And when a rider does not get the results they assume they should be getting (especially by comparison to other riders), then they start turning more outward in their search.

But that’s the thing - why do you need to ultimately spend all that money when you could easily just by a GIANT Defy or any other low end bike for 58,000 JPY?

the rider in the article hit a very important factor and that was his reasoning, what did you tell yourself when you dropped that amount of money on the bike, wheels, group set?

"I deserve it"
"I will only upgrade it later" etc,etc.

There are more reasons which many won't admit and that’s the social standing, many of us a riding DA, Ultegra and Super Record, that’s some serious money, but your also buying it because you hope that it is going to make you faster, give you that marginal gain or weight difference that will get you over that hill faster and give you the ‘Kudos’ and ‘Recognition’ we are all looking for?

Why else do we post our rides for everyone to see, dropping altitude gain and distance covered or for the hardcore trainers IF and TSS if not for social acceptance and accolade then what?

This leads to us trying to beat it, ride long, higher, faster – add STRAVA to the mix and now that adds a new element to the equation and ultimately turns every ride in to a race or sorts.

But it doesn’t stop once you dismount the bike, what about recovery drinks the protein shakes and creatine and other supplements that will enable you to recover faster, push harder and go longer?

Already our reasoning and mentality is on the same page as this guy - he is just much, much further up the ladder.

Some will never reach the point where they contemplate using PED's, some who race might have contemplated using or even gone over the edge, but as many will tell you it’s a very gradual process that starts at the very bottom of the ladder which we are all on.
 

FarEast

Maximum Pace
May 25, 2009
5,528
538
193
Yokohama
#17
Also WADA has said for some time now that they plan to do grass roots testing a while back. They know that the issues with PED's are actually worse in the amateur scene than they are the Pro’s and they are now pushing an initiative to test Sportif, Grand Fondo’s and other events that aren’t Pro level.

At the Tour of Kumano I was talking to the JADA (Japan Anti-Doping Agency) and they have already started testing at Triathlon and other events with more planned in 2013 including hill climb events that are both in the JCF/JBCF calendar and also stand alone events, which I openly welcome.
 

jdd

Maximum Pace
Hardest Crash
Jul 26, 2008
2,519
650
133
Kanazawa
#18
...

There are more reasons which many won't admit and that’s the social standing, many of us a riding DA, Ultegra and Super Record, that’s some serious money, but your also buying it because you hope that it is going to make you faster, give you that marginal gain or weight difference that will get you over that hill faster and give you the ‘Kudos’ and ‘Recognition’ we are all looking for?

Why else do we post our rides for everyone to see, dropping altitude gain and distance covered or for the hardcore trainers IF and TSS if not for social acceptance and accolade then what?

This leads to us trying to beat it, ride long, higher, faster – add STRAVA to the mix and now that adds a new element to the equation and ultimately turns every ride in to a race or sorts.

But it doesn’t stop once you dismount the bike, what about recovery drinks the protein shakes and creatine and other supplements that will enable you to recover faster, push harder and go longer?

Already our reasoning and mentality is on the same page as this guy - he is just much, much further up the ladder.
...
No, I guess i have a different opinion. (and the same for Tim's post following this one, but won't try to quote it in here) (respectful disagreement in both cases)

I ride to ride, and I post the rides I do just to post the rides I do.

I do mix a spoon or two of whey powder into a smoothie, but I'm looking to avoid the immediate post-ride hassle of cooking/prepping other food by doing so--not the faster/harder/longer thing. (and I haven't opted for chocolate milk over the powder yet, just because my smoothies are tastier!)

***

Tangentially, being older, maybe some T cream would help. I'll ask the wife about it later.
 

GSAstuto

Maximum Pace
Oct 11, 2009
945
242
103
tokyo
www.roadfixie.com
#19
WADA going after GF and Sportives, etc is really pushing the envelope. The fact is that many of the hormone and HGH treatments are fully legal and fall well within the guidelines of accepted medical practices for those either requiring it medically or just wanting to 'tune up' their body. Much like cosmetic surgery, etc. So, what's next? You can't buy a bike unless you've a piss and blood test? Whereabouts reporting required for all TCC club rides?

For amateur and pro cycling sanctioned races - I can fully understand and support the rules and requirements. Otherwise it edges far too close to the 'invasion of privacy' human rights.

But I dare say, these issues are far more prevelant today than 'back in the day' , when your choices for PED's were basically illegal obtained from 'the man' and your results were judged by actual racing mano-e-mano on a weekly or more basis, not some email harrasment that is completely out of context 99% of the time.
 

Deej

Maximum Pace
Oct 13, 2007
1,018
149
83
Setagaya
#20
Why else do we post our rides for everyone to see, dropping altitude gain and distance covered or for the hardcore trainers IF and TSS if not for social acceptance and accolade?
And why else do we post photos of ourselves posing cockily with our bling? :p

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Sorry, James, I couldn't help myself. :) Interesting thread. Thanks for posting the link, Alan.

I think the motivations behind purchases of higher-end gear are pretty straightforward (why buy a Defy if you can afford a Pinarello Prince?) and probably quite different from the factors that drive amateurs to dope.