TDF 2011

laz

Warming-Up
Sep 2, 2009
61
1
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Tokyo, Mitaka
So far those accidents are hard to say related to " reckless riding ". Most of them just because of careless, like falling to the road side, touching other racing wheel......Racing is like a game of making balance between protecting yourself and risk taking. Keep conservative and you will not going to podium, taking too much risk result the same.

I do agree to asking much much harder rules against those media cars and bike. Yes that may make the TV program less interesting.
 

GSAstuto

Maximum Pace
Oct 11, 2009
947
243
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tokyo
www.roadfixie.com
interesting - 1500 yen, though? What is this now - adhoc PPV in Japan? I wonder if the riders are collecting royalties based on the absurd behavior of 'establishments' like this .. sheesh ...

I watched the race on Saturday night at Mori Tower in Roppongi Hills on the City View floor. There is a nice TDF display, including a few bikes and many photos. The race is shown on a large screen, and when I went, there were plenty of places to sit. Admission is 1500 yen. On Fridays and Saturdays you can watch until after midnight.
 

GSAstuto

Maximum Pace
Oct 11, 2009
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tokyo
www.roadfixie.com
Taking risks is part of the sport, rules that you imply Ludwig would basically kill criterium racing and track racing and races like the TDF where the green jersey and stages are won through risk taking rather than sitting in and waiting for the mountains. The TDF would, to use one Pro Tour rider’s words "The TDF will be reduced to 22 separate individual Time trials"

This is racing, it’s a high risk sport like any other and the riders are "FULLY" aware of the consequences if they make a mistake and to penalize a rider for any infraction no matter how minor will result in very boring racing.

It amazes me how many people who watch the tour and only focus on the Yellow which in the past 5 years has basically either become a sham or very borring..... there is much more exciting racing going on for the white and the green!
Hear hear! As an 'Old School' racer, I can tell you we had WAY MORE crashes and injuries than this! No one gave a 2nd thought about it. THIS IS WHAT ITS ABOUT. Push the limits and take the prize. Sit back and play safe and you'll lose. - I have broken my shoulder 2x, my fingers many times, went through fences, right foot 2X, ribs many times, nose, lots of cuts, bruises, rash, etc. Helmet? What helmet? We never wore no stinking helmets! And yet, though all this, cycle racing has stayed vibrant, passionate and relatively safe. Clutter it up with more safety rules and crap and you'll just be castrating the sport. Next thing you know they'll want racers to be fully padded, 100% course control, mouth guard, ABS and airbags.

Bring on the press! They are absolute idiots anywhere and have been forever - but that is part of the spectacle. And, you're about as likely to get taken out by a press vehicle as a dog crossing the road (or toads) or costumed bystanders. This is a SPECTATOR SPORT - the press is as necessary as any other part of it - they are the antagonists which provide fuel for the fodder.

Bring on the Race! Make it harder, tougher and nastier than ever!
 

GSAstuto

Maximum Pace
Oct 11, 2009
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tokyo
www.roadfixie.com
Anyone who races knows that the Peloton effectively deals with 'reckless riders' internally. You get taken out. Period.
 

TOM

Maximum Pace

Sikochi

Maximum Pace
Sep 13, 2010
1,185
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Kochi
Really? You think? 100 years of racing and all thats changed is the material of the clothing and helmets have become standard..
I wasn`t talking about deaths, I am talking about the injury rate due to the number of accidents with no protection for the injuries the riders suffer. I said `a coming` as the technology is not quite there to offer clothing with padding that is able to actually protect (as opposed to appearing to protect) the riders without hindering them from a performance perspective. Given the number of risks the riders are happy to take with their bodies (see the recent articles on the effects of EPO use) then sure, they can`t complain about the current state of things as regards protection from crashes.

Anyway, modern day bike helmets are not up to the job. They offer very little protection against rotational head injury which is probably (probably as not being a medical practitioner am not qualified to comment on that) the main cause of the number of concussions we have seen, and inadequate basic impact protection given the speeds the cyclists are crashing at. I wear a helmet, but am not happy with the limited protection it offers.

The difference nowadays is a professional sport which will not for much longer be able to operate outside of basic health and safety at work legislature. And also, more chance of riders seeking compensation from governing bodies should their careers be curtailed due to unsafe working conditions. Plus, more money leads to more riders willing to take risks for their shot at glory.

As for the UCI, there was an article just the other day from Leonard Zinn showing how UCI regulation forces him (should he choose to compete) to ride a bike that to comply with their arbitrary regulations could well cause physiological problems.

Any change in the sport will kill it, pretty much like all the safety regulations have done to F1.
I disagree here. F1 has been boring for over 20 years and it wasn`t safety regulation that did it, more like too many technological improvements in cars precluding any actual racing.
 

Sikochi

Maximum Pace
Sep 13, 2010
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Kochi
If riders were banned from races even for infractions with minor consequences, I am sure behaviour would change. Just as it does on normal roads, because there is a law, there is policing and there are consequences. All of these seem rather absent by comparison on the race circuit. Which is why I have effectively withdrawn from racing.
Agreed

Try taking a look at the statisitcs for professional football (Soccer) pretty high injury rate and several deaths, but you don't hear the fans or the playersscreaming for better protection! .
Wrong sport! I`m talking about injuries which could be preventable through adequate protection. Anyway, modern players do have better protection - better playing surfaces, more punishment for bad tackles (when the ref actually does his job!) e.g no tackling from behind, straight red card now for tackles with both feet in the air, better backroom staff - physios, nutrition - less reliance on patching up players to get through a game, police willing to tack action against `tackles` which are more akin to actual assault. None of these things has made footie worse: I want to see the best players playing, not sitting on the bench due to preventable injury. But if you look at rugby, then again, action will have to be taken.

Even Thor hushovd was amazed at the penalization both he and Cavendish received early in the race
Well yes, that was pathetic.
 

FarEast

Maximum Pace
May 25, 2009
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Yokohama
All of these seem rather absent by comparison on the race circuit. Which is why I have effectively withdrawn from racing.
JCRC D class let alone S class are a far cry from the echelons of UCI Pro Tour racing.

And its funny how those who advocate change have left the race scene while those that don't still race yet argue that changes should be made that we don't actually want.

Agreed

Anyway, modern players do have better protection - better playing surfaces, more punishment for bad tackles (when the ref actually does his job!) e.g no tackling from behind, straight red card now for tackles with both feet in the air, better backroom staff - physios, nutrition - less reliance on patching up players to get through a game, police willing to tack action against `tackles` which are more akin to actual assault.
But riders are punished both by the professional bodies and as Tim points out within the peloton, there are rules in place that are enforced and we’ve seen this in this yearsTour already with riders being fined and penalized from the “Sticky Bottle” to “Line Drifting”

Professional cycling has a whole Entourage following the teams from doctors to physiotherapists and even Professional team chefs and mechanics that make sure the riders have everything they need to race.
But at the end of the day it’s the rider choice if he gets on the bike or not and riders aren’t penalized by the team for pulling out of a race after a crash or from illness.

To quote another professional cyclist “To race bicycles is to drink greedily from a bottomless chalice of agony” it’s a sport of suffering from beginning to end and every time we get on the bike to train or race we except that we are going to either punish ourselves or others.

Every time I race I fully except that I might get taken out on a corner getting ready for the final sprint, touch a pedal to the floor by taking that corner a little too fast or get wiped out due to someone getting a flat or messing up their line.

I’ve seen riders here in Japan get penalized in JBCF races and I also received a warning at the first stage of the Tour Du Japon last year for taking my hand off the bars in celebration after winning the first stage…. I was lucky not to be disqualified.

Fuji was fined on 3 separate times in Cameroon for infractions of minor rules and there was a lot of bitching and complaining in the Peloton with riders getting the doors shut on them by the main group and pushed to the back of the peloton for reckless riding.

What gets me are the idiots that go out on the roads with faulty and poorly maintained equipment especially those joining group rides.

In regards to helmets there is a vast array of helmets out there that can offer you a lot more protection and I think that your selection of helmet is more to do with looking the part than protection but again this comes down to what you prefer rather than having a governing body enforce what you should be wearing and you seem very happy to run that risk.

Any way this is a debate very similar to religion or Mac v PC….. neither camp is going to alter their views so back to the racing.

Brilliant racing for the Green last night…. Lotto totally destroyed the HTC train after brilliant tactics in the final 25km to get the HTC train blown out on the climb and giving Greipel the equalizer he needed to take on the Manx missle, nether the less impressive riding by Cavendish who basically soloed it for the final few km and then had to basically go at the 250m mark rather in the final 100 – 150m.

Outstanding racing!
 

Sikochi

Maximum Pace
Sep 13, 2010
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Kochi
Any way this is a debate very similar to religion or Mac v PC….. neither camp is going to alter their views so back to the racing.
Agreed, too much discussion, but I will just pick up the helmet point.
http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1182.html
"Education programs should therefore explain the limitations of helmets, and that impacts to the helmet at only 12.1 miles/hour may produce severe or unsurvivable head injuries. ...The research of Corner et al. (1987)...are of great concern because it has long been known that rotational accelerations are a significant cause of brain damage. Rotations can shear the brain’s neuronal connections, which are a vital part of our thought processes. This condition is known as diffuse axonal injury. Unlike a focal injury which occurs at a specific site in the brain (e.g. the site of impact), diffuse injuries can happen throughout the brain."

http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/wiki/Assessment_of_current_bicycle_helmets_for_the_potential_to_cause_rotational_injury
"Overall, it was concluded that for the majority of cases considered, the helmet can provide life saving protection during typical linear impacts and, in addition, the typical level of rotational acceleration observed using a helmeted headform would generally be no more injurious than expected for a bare human head."
Note: `No more injurious`...so offers no protection for this.

"However, in both low speed linear impacts and the most severe oblique cases, linear and rotational accelerations may increase to levels corresponding to injury severities as high as AIS 2 or 3, at which a marginal increase (up to 1 AIS interval) in injury outcome may be expected for a helmeted head."

I shall leave it there.
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For those of us who like climbing, the real fun starts today. Whole stage is live on Eurosport. :clap: Will be interesting to see how Gilbert fares - noticeable that he didn`t compete for the final sprint yesterday. Can the Schlecks drop Evans, can Evans drop the Schlecks. Has AC`s form dramatically improved after a rest day...:susp:
 

FarEast

Maximum Pace
May 25, 2009
5,528
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Yokohama
Buddy... my wife is a surgical nurse at a hospital that treats all the pro Keirin riders. General consensus from the pros..... WEAR A HELMET! :D
 

kiwisimon

Maximum Pace
Dec 14, 2006
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Good to see Evans and Contador shaping up for the next few days. Even now (after beef) I still have a soft spot for Contador but would love to see an Ocker win it. After all they are the next best things to us Kiwis. Go Cadel.
 

Sikochi

Maximum Pace
Sep 13, 2010
1,185
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Kochi
As time passes, getting even more confident on Cadel for the win. Voeckler and Frank Schleck to accompany him on the podium. I`m discounting Contador due to the ban. Still think Gilbert was mis-advised, as he is now in no-man`s land for the Green jersey and if he hadn`t wasted his energy on that, am sure he would have been competitive in the mountains, especially with his descending thrown in.

I`m hoping that it will now be revealed why Contador`s inquest was actually postponed - the reason being WADA had a valid test for plasticizers and didn`t want to show their hand before the tour. So now the last rest day has gone, all will come out. Sadly, think I`m dreaming - would be interesting though, to see how many would be left standing.

As I wrote before, a sudden improvement in Contador after a rest day...does he think we are stupid???
 

Mike

Maximum Pace
Sep 24, 2007
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Kanagawa
Sikochi, while I was very disappointed with Contador being allowed to race this year, he always improves in the latter half of Grand Tours while his competitors seem to fatigue. Drugs or not, who knows, but surely he wouldn't be so stupid to do it again, would he? Hmmm....

Anyway, he sure has light up the race the last few stages...and last nights descending was amazing to watch. It's been a gripping race with all the crashes and the I've enjoyed the Green jersey battle.

But since stage 16 the GC race has finally come alive:D

Being an Ozzie I should be supporting Evans, but I dunno...he kind of gives me the shits with his sensitive personality. But one thing I can say about him this year, he sure has been gritty!

And the Schlecks have been totally useless. I used to be an Andy fan, but not anymore. If you're going to attack do so properly, not some half arsed effort and then look back and sit up after 10 meters....truly pathetic! Contador has got a pair of big ones for such a little bloke;)




Andy must be trolling these pages and read my post! Like a different rider...
 

Edogawakikkoman

Maximum Pace
Jan 14, 2007
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japanichiban.com
What a night last night...

Evans doing everything to hang on...

Contador busting the thing to smithereens.

Shlecks wheel sucking their way to the top.

Going to be tears in one camp tonight...

Going to be very very close...
 

kpykc

Speeding Up
Jun 13, 2007
804
4
38
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Tokyo
Cadel Evans takes it!
What a great racer he is - world champ last year, TdF winner this year. Awesome!!!
 

Mike

Maximum Pace
Sep 24, 2007
1,066
9
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Kanagawa
Congratulations Cadel, you're not my favorite cyclist but sure earned my respect with your typical Aussie fighting spirit. What a great Tour it's been this year.
 

Wolfman

Speeding Up
Jul 31, 2007
631
18
38
Suginamiku
What a great Tour it's been this year.
Really agree with that. So many on the edge of my seat, nail biting stages and finishes. I've really enjoyed it.

Congrats to Cadel and the Aussie fans.

I hope Cav can clinch the green jersey today.