Help Syncing your training wheel cassette with your regular one

j-sworks

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#1
So I thought I did this finally for this upcoming winter season.

I bought a separate wheel to use specifically on the trainer with a Shimano cassette so all I have to do is swap out the rear wheel and I can change quickly between road and indoor. However my plan did not work because I did this yesterday and I my rear mech was not shifting properly after switching out my trainer wheel. The problems I have after the change are missing gears, and that issue when your in the small chainring and big sprocket, and when you shift out of the big sprocket it hovers on the top or something like an old man testing the bath temperature.

The setup:
Outdoor wheels are Mavic's with an Ultegra 12/25 cassette (ultegra DI2 drivetrain)
Indoor trainer wheel is a Shimano RS11 (with 10 speed spacer) and a 105 12/25 cassette.

My initial thoughts are that (1) the reason I get fine adjustment problems is because the Mavic and Shimano wheels align the cassette slightly differently, (2) my drivetrain needs to be serviced by professional, or (3) there is a tiny difference between the 105 and Ultegra cassette and its messing up the alignment of my rear mech.
 

Gunjira

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#2
Número Uno, wheels have different dish, so the position of freebody and casette changes. That's what the limiter screws on your derailleur are for. That's also why I use the same type of wheel for the trainer (shimano r500).

I would keep it adjusted for your road casette and just use the gears that work on the trainer. Just watch out that you don't accidentally change gears all the way into the spokes during exercise.

Alternatively, you could set the limit screws every time. Kind of easy when the wheel is in the trainer anyways, so I guess that ones you figure out how many turns you need, it will be easy.
 

j-sworks

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#3
Número Uno, wheels have different dish, so the position of freebody and casette changes. That's what the limiter screws on your derailleur are for. That's also why I use the same type of wheel for the trainer (shimano r500).

I would keep it adjusted for your road casette and just use the gears that work on the trainer. Just watch out that you don't accidentally change gears all the way into the spokes during exercise.

Alternatively, you could set the limit screws every time. Kind of easy when the wheel is in the trainer anyways, so I guess that ones you figure out how many turns you need, it will be easy.
Indeed, I was messing with the limiter screw last night before my wife kicked me out of the bedroom (where every man clearly keeps his beloved bike), so I will keep playing with the limiter today.

And thanks for the tip about different wheel dish.
 

GSAstuto

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#4
Actually dish has no bearing. The cassette spacing is determined from the freebody spacing on the hub. The easiest way to 'synch' your freebodies is to use a shim spacer on the cassette. Running 10sp cassette on 11sp freebody generally require a 1.5-2mm spacer (depending on mfg) Spacers in .25, .5 , 1.0mm, etc are also fairly readily available. Dish of the wheel is determined by the centerline of the wheel/rim with respect to the hub spacing and will vary according to the flange spacing. In rare cases an axle or end cap change is required to change freebody which may shift the hub section slightly left to accommodate the longer freebody. Under that condition, the wheel would require re-dishing to re-center it.
 
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j-sworks

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#5
Actually dish has no bearing. The cassette spacing is determined from the freebody spacing on the hub. The easiest way to 'synch' your freebodies is to use a shim spacer on the cassette. Running 10sp cassette on 11sp freebody generally require a 1.5-2mm spacer (depending on mfg) Spacers in .25, .5 , 1.0mm, etc are also fairly readily available. Dish of the wheel is determined by the centerline of the wheel/rim with respect to the hub spacing and will vary according to the flange spacing. In rare cases an axle or end cap change is required to change freebody which may shift the hub section slightly left to accommodate the longer freebody. Under that condition, the wheel would require re-dishing to re-center it.
Good point regarding the freebody shim, I have a spare and the RS11 came with one specified for use with my 10spd cassette. So it seems that the questions would be (1) what is the size of the shim on the mavic, and (2) what are the sizes of the two respective freebodies so that I can get the correct shims to make them equal.

Thanks, another idea to keep me busy
 

Gunjira

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#6
Tim, thanks I hadn't be aware of that. But is this kind of cassette spacing really practical? I haven't tried it, but aren't you fairly limited by available spacer sizes and the lockring engagement? From your experience does this always/sometimes/rarely work perfect/good enough/kinda??
 

j-sworks

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#7
I tried to add another 1mm spacer from shimano and it made the problem worse.

I measures the free bodies and they are slightly different, but like I said the problem was worse after that. Needed to hit the shifter twice to get it to change.
 

wexford

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#8
I'd also like to sync my trainer to my wheel. I've the Lemond Revolution. What's the Japanese name for the spacers? My lemond (shimano) cassette needs to go out slightly.
 

GrantT

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#9
I'd also like to sync my trainer to my wheel. I've the Lemond Revolution. What's the Japanese name for the spacers? My lemond (shimano) cassette needs to go out slightly.
Seems to be called a ロースペーサー (Low Spacer)

What model shimano cassette are you trying to fit onto what speed hub?
 

wexford

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#10
Seems to be called a ロースペーサー (Low Spacer)

What model shimano cassette are you trying to fit onto what speed hub?
10 speed cassette on a 10 speed hub (afaik). It's been on it since I got the Revolution. I can't recall if its 105, Ultegra or what particular groupset the cassette is from. My bike uses 10 speed Ultegra. When I put the bike on the Lemond, the rear mech's range is off slightly. I'd prefer not to adjust the mech everytime I take it on/off so I think a tiny spacer might be the answer. I know the block needs to go out slightly to match my current rear wheel setting as when I use the highest gear (smallest cog) it will jam off the edge of the block.
 

Trek DJ

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#11
Tim is 100% right, just get a cassette spacer to match your Shimano fhb to your Mavic etc FHB. (freehub body)

Like my cologne, it works 60% of the time, all the time.

Mavic traditionally have wider FHB's, and also had thicker spacers. Lucky for Mavic users that didnt need to get a new FHB (or get a new wheel in some cases) when 11-speed shimano came out.

Thread drift, but I noticed that on new 11-speed FHB's, there isnt much difference in spacing. CK 11-speed hub, DT hub, Shimano DA 9000, none required RD adjustments. Campy 11-speed also works without issue with Shimano and vice-versa.
 

wexford

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#13
make sure you are not overly tightening the QR on the trainer - you could be pinching the frame in and causing the offset.
Hmmm. I may be guilty of that. I haven't got it super tight but I guess it's tight enough for me to stop worrying about popping out the rear forks when doing some out of the saddle work. It could be looser! I'll give that a go. Generally, I wouldn't tighten my wheels as tight so perhaps... Thanks FE!
 

FarEast

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#14
Also are you using the QR that came with the trainer? There is a washer on the QR that you to make sure is on the correct side of the frame.... double check with the manual to make sure the QR is set up correctly.
 
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wexford

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#15
Also are you using the QR that came with the trainer? There is a washer on the QR that you to make sure is on the correct side of the frame.... double check with the manual to make sure the QR is set up correctly.
Yep. Re-read the manual and have the washer on the correct side. I might try it the other way though to see if that aligns things better. Nice idea. I hadn't really thought about that washer doing much since I first set things up.
 

Musashi13

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#16
Yep. Re-read the manual and have the washer on the correct side. I might try it the other way though to see if that aligns things better. Nice idea. I hadn't really thought about that washer doing much since I first set things up.
This is because you have his old trainer not because there is a washer on every QR for every trainer, right?
 

FarEast

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#17
That is correct @Musashi13 the Lemond has a washer on the QR, however I have had other trainers where a washer has helped align the gearing perfectly - the most common reason for non-alignment though is that the QR is always done to tightly on trainers.
 
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wexford

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#19
Yep. Re-read the manual and have the washer on the correct side. I might try it the other way though to see if that aligns things better. Nice idea. I hadn't really thought about that washer doing much since I first set things up.
Tried the washer the other way around (non road bike setup) but it was worse so went back. Walked to a mates house for some drinking on Saturday night and noticed a bike shop on the way so I picked up a 1mm spacer. Installed that on Sunday and it lines up bang on now. Yeah!
 
#20
Could it be that you trained for so long and such intensity on your 105 cassette that your chain has perfectly attuned to the 105 sprockets and therefore no longer fit the Ultegra cassette? I have had this issue many times and learned that it is often best to change the cassette and the chain at the same time. Of course you can use different rear wheels with different cassettes on one and the same chain but in that case you should try to pair each rear wheel with the chain for about the same length of time/distance (in other words, changing at regular intervals to give each cassette a chance to adapt to the chain making sure the amount of wear and tear is about the same).