Sculpture (Cinelli Laser crono strada)

FarEast

Maximum Pace
May 25, 2009
5,528
538
193
Yokohama
#2
These are normally refereed to in he trade as Chinarello's.

At the end of the day you have created nothing original and basically you have committed plagiarism - the original frame design won the prestigious "Compasso d'Oro" Industrial design award and has a place in Chicago's Museum of Contemporary Art.

So my question for you is this, if this frame is already iconic and celebrate for not only it's racing heritage but for its artistic form both within the cycling community and out, if your peers and mentors in the artistic world have awarded this design for its artistic form, how can you possibly submit this works as your own?

I see this akin to photocopying Picasso or Van Gogh on a retro 80's photocopier and trying to pass it off as my own work as a tribute to the original creator.

I also believe you have infringed on the companies copyright. What I was really expecting was a real tribute to the bike, something like Gottfried Bechtold tribute to the Porsche.

Ultimately I personally believe all you have done is devalued the work of another artist.
 
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Musashi13

Maximum Pace
Aug 27, 2012
1,774
1,105
143
41
Ichikawa, Chiba
#3
These are normally refereed to in he trade as Chinarello's.

At the end of the day you have created nothing original and basically you have committed plagiarism - the original frame design won the prestigious "Compasso d'Oro" Industrial design award and has a place in Chicago's Museum of Contemporary Art.

So my question for you is this, if this frame is already iconic and celebrate for not only it's racing heritage but for its artistic form both within the cycling community and out, if your peers and mentors in the artistic world have awarded this design for its artistic form, how can you possibly submit this works as your own?

I see this akin to photocopying Picasso or Van Gogh on a retro 80's photocopier and trying to pass it off as my own work as a tribute to the original creator.

I also believe you have infringed on the companies copyright. What I was really expecting was a real tribute to the bike, something like Gottfried Bechtold tribute to the Porsche.

Ultimately I personally believe all you have done is devalued the work of another artist.
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Likes: FarEast

Trek DJ

Maximum Pace
Jan 27, 2009
215
78
48
118
Kobe
#4
Interesting....I wonder how many damn hipsters you could fool with that thing. I liked seeing the process you went through to get to the final replica. Since you obviously arent going to ride or sell it, I dont see any major foul. There are plenty of kit cars around, I would say this more closely resembles that.

I have never heard anyone say Chinarello...and I work in the trade. Seems more like forum lingo.
 

TCC

Tokyo Cycling Club
Jun 30, 2013
2,362
1,291
133
#5
@Ladde , very good. Your description and reasoning behind this work matches what I hoped I would find when I glanced the title of your project. I particularly like the following...

"What I want to achieve with this is a replacement (on a philosophical level) of all the bikes that are used as ornaments, with a sculpture that speaks to the viewer on a different, rather reflective artistic level. Instead of using these fantastic sports machines constructed by some of the best engineers in the world, I wanted to create a sculpture"

This is great, and in some ironic sense, makes your creation perhaps more 'fit-for-purpose' than an actual Cinelli Laser.

"I’m also investigating how the boundaries are drawn between what is considered authentic and fake. How does this project affect the projected gloria and how far should I move across the border of what is considered as sacred?"

You should feel free to move across all borders, as if a phantom which has abandoned the physical form. Nothing is sacred if you don't let it be.
 

FarEast

Maximum Pace
May 25, 2009
5,528
538
193
Yokohama
#6
One could argue that the point of this is to create emotion and discussion which obviously it does. However I think the original does a better job - For those that are interested in seeing the original bike here in Japan, Sagami Cycles has one on the 3rd floor along with another Iconic bike, Petacchi's Pinarello Dogma which was the first bike to use Magnesium Ak 61 double butted alloy for its tubing - not only was it revolutionary and said to be the pinnacle of the alloy era, but sadly also marked it with the rise of carbon.

Maybe you could give the piece a more provoking title, here are a few to get your creative juices flowing.

"The hypocrisy of copyright infringement in the artistic world"
"The desecration of form and beauty through imitation"
"The devaluation and dilution of an others dreams and aspiration"
 

Deej

Maximum Pace
Oct 13, 2007
1,018
149
83
Setagaya
#8
Fascinating. Thanks for sharing. Much of the art-speak is, quite frankly, over my head, but there is clearly considerable thought behind it and I appreciate that articulating artistic concepts is an art in and of itself.

Speaking as someone who gets nervous about performing a task as simple as installing shifter cables, I have to say I'm tremendously impressed by the level of craftsmanship and ingenuity displayed here.

As for the "Chinarello" criticism, I don't get it. Cranking out an imitation frame to be ridden by the masses and painstakingly crafting a replica as an homage and commentary -- and just as painstakingly explaining the reasoning behind it -- seem worlds apart to me. Color me impressed, not outraged.

Deej
 

TCC

Tokyo Cycling Club
Jun 30, 2013
2,362
1,291
133
#9
A 'Chinarello' is a brutally nasty phenomenon; a piggy-backing theft of not only an end product, but also an entire design process, where 'design' is defined as the vast and endlessly iterative process of creating something which is functional, safe, reliable, competitive, usable, manufacturable, and marketable with each of these elements being huge design undertakings in their own right.

Creating a sculpture of the end result of a successful design process, as an artistic statement, is incomparable.
 
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FarEast

Maximum Pace
May 25, 2009
5,528
538
193
Yokohama
#10
DJ you are clearly missing the point, although my comments are at the extreme, they were a knee jerk reaction to the project, it is what the artist is looking for; a raw unprocessed reaction to the work in question which is what art is all about. If we were all to agree then the exercise of the project would be pointless.
 

theBlob

Bokeh master
Sep 28, 2011
2,865
1,450
129
...
#11
Yeah I can see both sides of the coin. I am not sure just mimicking something that is already made without addition or interpretation could be considered art. Even the great common culture forager Andy Warhol used color and medium to reinterpret and comment on consumer culture. You have just made a replica? I don't see how it warrants being called art really. Where is the artists interpretation? What I am seeing is craft not art.

Fine craft and very nicely done, but not art.
 
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bawbag

Maximum Pace
Mar 20, 2013
430
244
63
Tokyo
#16
I saw this on the LFGSS site - it's a lovely sculpture!

The bike is unrideable if it's not clear - the frame is tacked together with spot welds. One of the rims was also crushed in a vice to make it narrower, if you read the details. Not something I'd like to take to the velodrome or even the supermarket.

I imagine that some people skimmed the post to the final sculpture and jumped to the conclusion that it's a knockoff or to be sold, and without reading properly that's understandable, but it's neither of those. It may as well have been cast in bronze!
 

kiwisimon

Maximum Pace
Dec 14, 2006
2,670
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103
Japan
#18
I can appreciate the craftsmanship but why just copy something? I was expecting to see a new concept based on the original classic. Being as the bike is nonfunctional, why not exaggerate the iconic shape and put your own spin on it(not that I ever could). I look forward to your next piece which could perhaps be the granddaughter of a cycle coitus between this model and another iconic bike of the 1990s.
 

TCC

Tokyo Cycling Club
Jun 30, 2013
2,362
1,291
133
#19
This is what he said:
I want to formulate a comment on a hipster culture in which you use expensive bikes (among other stuff) to decorate the home, office or display windows with.

Because my focus has exclusively been philosophical, the practical qualities that the originals have has been set aside.

What I want to achieve with this is a replacement (on a philosophical level) of all the bikes that are used as ornaments, with a sculpture that speaks to the viewer on a different, rather reflective artistic level.

Instead of using these fantastic sports machines constructed by some of the best engineers in the world, I wanted to create a sculpture to illustrate my concept, to bring The Laser — with its sculptural perfection — into the contemporary art world (again). That way, hopefully the classic bikes can be used for what they were built for (I speak now not only about The Laser, but about all the amazing bikes that are not used for their original purpose and because I believe that The Laser is number one, it has become model for my sculpting).
Come on. He is doing this to take the piss out of all those poncy coffee shops, cafes, clothes shops, etc., which have a classic, iconic bike in the shop just because that is the fashionable thing to do. He is making an essentially unrideable copy of one of the classics to show up how silly it is to use something which has gone through such extensive and thorough mechanical design as the Cinelli Laser as a decoration, and is saying, "hey pricks, if you are going to use it just because of its' appearance, and not how it performs, you may as well just have something which just looks like it, and nobody would be any the wiser."

His sentiment is valid. It is also fairly amusing of him to post it on the Tokyo Cycling Club, as the Japanese are often some of the worst offenders of making and displaying bizarre approximations of western hedonistic iconography, without any real clue as to the history or true cultural meaning and significance of what they are aping.