Rhys Ifans to play Wiggo in film bio...

Sikochi

Maximum Pace
Sep 13, 2010
1,149
49
68
Kochi
#5

Sikochi

Maximum Pace
Sep 13, 2010
1,149
49
68
Kochi
#8
I`m not disagreeing with you, but I don`t see how he can respect such people when he says the following:-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/jul/13/bradley-wiggins-dope-drugs?CMP=twt_gu
"...and what I said when I was chucked out with Cofidis after Cristian Moreni tested positive in 2007.
On the way home after that, I put my Cofidis kit in a dustbin at Pau airport because I didn't want to be seen in it, and swore I would never race in it again, because I was so sick at what had happened. Those things I said then stand true today. Nothing has changed. I still feel those emotions and I stand by those statements now."

The older people from `back in the days` fair enough, as that is the way it was, but the modern generation??? I loved Pantani growing up, but not any more...etc
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
1,598
1,277
133
Niigata
#9
It's statements like that that that make me believe in him - also what he said after David Millar tested positive. Cavendish too - they way he slagged off Ricardo Ricco a few years ago.

Still, everyone has their heroes to aspire too - clean or not. If you look up to someone with a dodgy past that shouldn't be a direct reflection on you.

For me - Indurain (?), Ullrich (drugged), Boardman (clean) ...

Andy

www.jyonnobitime.com/time
 

Sikochi

Maximum Pace
Sep 13, 2010
1,149
49
68
Kochi
#10
Boardman, I agree with you. 2 reasons - would probably have a legacy similar to Armstrong`s if he`d been doping, plus, he didn`t (I don`t think) come up through the European/continental system (which is also why I agree with you on Wiggins`s past)

With Ullrich, the question I would like to know, is whether he doped from the start, or he felt the need to, in order to be competitive with everyone else at the time. Shame he won`t tell all ala Hamilton, as we are just left with rumours.

Indurain, guilt by association - how did he stay ahead of all those who were doping at the time, given the performance benefit doping allows??? But again, if he did dope (I`m on best behaviour ;)), was it from the start, or did he feel the need to, to stay competitive???

I have more time for those who only doped to remain competitive, and were more victims of their era (I think, mistakenly maybe, that the above fall into this category), rather than those, Mr 60%???, who deliberately set out to cheat.


Anyway, such conversations make loving cycling so depressing :(
 

FarEast

Maximum Pace
May 25, 2009
5,528
538
193
Yokohama
#11
Boardman, I agree with you. 2 reasons - would probably have a legacy similar to Armstrong`s if he`d been doping, plus, he didn`t (I don`t think) come up through the European/continental system (which is also why I agree with you on Wiggins`s past)

With Ullrich, the question I would like to know, is whether he doped from the start, or he felt the need to, in order to be competitive with everyone else at the time. Shame he won`t tell all ala Hamilton, as we are just left with rumours.

Indurain, guilt by association - how did he stay ahead of all those who were doping at the time, given the performance benefit doping allows??? But again, if he did dope (I`m on best behaviour ;)), was it from the start, or did he feel the need to, to stay competitive???

I have more time for those who only doped to remain competitive, and were more victims of their era (I think, mistakenly maybe, that the above fall into this category), rather than those, Mr 60%???, who deliberately set out to cheat.


Anyway, such conversations make loving cycling so depressing :(
Indurain is one of my heroes and one of the reasons I love Pinarello so much

In regards to Indurain doping, I don't think so - he had an incredibly large heart in comparison to most other athletes - he was a freak of nature in other words and it gave him a huge advantage 50 litres a minute, coupled with a lung capacity of 7.8 litres (the norm is 6) the guy was a monster.

Towards the end of the his professional career he mentioned it was becoming harder and harder to win and I think he saw the writing on the wall on artificial enhancements and possibly why he didn't challenge for the 6th Tour title and bowed out when he did.
 

GSAstuto

Maximum Pace
Oct 11, 2009
945
242
103
tokyo
www.roadfixie.com
#12
BIG MIG! Always one of my favs! All things aside - if you took ANY ankle tatted age grouper and doped them to the gills they still couldn't pull off the wins. It takes much much more than that. Namely talent, guts, skills and genetics from the start. So - regardless they doped or not - they were (and are) still amazing riders. The doping spoils the frosting on the cake, unfortunately. Now, within the peloton, doping can get a coveted yearly spot and perhaps move you up enough to get on a classics. So, I'd personally see it more as a problem in the younger and more mid-range riders. Also - they don't have access (or finances) to the specialists and have to rely on 'street docs' , therefore the risk of health injuries and illness goes up dramatically.

Good on Wiggo! Even though I'm not the biggest fan of the Souless Mod, chapeau for sticking it out in the system and putting in the miles to get where he is. The movie, on the otherhand, hmmmm... can you say .. 'DL it off Piratebay and save yourself the $$'
 

kratos34

Warming-Up
Jun 4, 2012
36
1
0
Sagamihara City
#14
It is common now in every sport... if someone excels, he is either "doping" or "drugged" or doing something illegal.. To me this means these anti-doping agencies are not keeping up with their jobs... they are also screwing the glory of the victories of these men and women. And sometimes the motivation is just political. I suggest they also put their official stamp when somebody won and is "clean"...asap. So less people will doubt these winners when they won...
 

FarEast

Maximum Pace
May 25, 2009
5,528
538
193
Yokohama
#15
Or it could be the fact that the WADA is actually doing thier job and catching dopers? You never hear of tennis champs, Football champs or other high paid athletes getting caught for doping, the reason for this is that no other sport has such a comprihensive in and out of competition testing program.

There are no checks for winners of The US Open or Wimbledon yet there is said to be a seriious problem with steriod abuse in professional tennis, especailly with the women.

FIFA has said that there is a major concern of pain killer abuse amongst Premier League footballers, yet again there is no in or out of competition testing.

I've mentioned it before, but the reason why cycling has such a bad reputation in the sporting world for abuse is because its been pushed to the limelight by organisers and governing bodies in the effort to stamp it out, other sports prefer to brush it under the carpet.

I won't even touch the issues with Ice Hockey and American Football.
 

GSAstuto

Maximum Pace
Oct 11, 2009
945
242
103
tokyo
www.roadfixie.com
#16
Doping is an arms race. It creates a cold war among the ahtletes that extends from the very top tier to the bottom. Until trust is generated inside the organization then all competitors have everything to lose (potentially) if they don't use the PEDS. Because there will always be the threat that the other side IS using them, whether they actually do or not. So you need to either:

1) Create a Mutually Assured Destruction protocol. As I mentioned before - if ANY DOPE ANYWHERE on ANY TEAM is found - you shut the whole thing down. 100%.

2) Continue to pick away at the problem until you've distilled it to an acceptable level. This is what they're doing now. But you'll still have your 'countries' going around the fence. And this will continually cause flare ups and uncertanty. Along with a thriving 'arms business' of expert pharmacists, doctors, etc , ready and willing to cash in. So, regardless, it will always be there - it's just a matter of how important it is. Currently it seems to be one of the best media impression tools - so, we'll continue to hear about it because quite frankly the majority of people are not interested in the players. Just the sordid backstory. And in the US taking down a hero is far better news than building one.
 

Sikochi

Maximum Pace
Sep 13, 2010
1,149
49
68
Kochi
#17
Indurain is one of my heroes and one of the reasons I love Pinarello so much

In regards to Indurain doping, I don't think so - he had an incredibly large heart in comparison to most other athletes - he was a freak of nature in other words and it gave him a huge advantage 50 litres a minute, coupled with a lung capacity of 7.8 litres (the norm is 6) the guy was a monster.

Towards the end of the his professional career he mentioned it was becoming harder and harder to win and I think he saw the writing on the wall on artificial enhancements and possibly why he didn't challenge for the 6th Tour title and bowed out when he did.
Indeed, he had massive genetic advantages, but enough? And sufficient to make such a big guy competitive with the pure climbers? PED`s are quoted as (I think) a 10% performance advantage, and for high responders, the figure bandied around is up to 30% There`s an article from Jonathan Vaughters who cites 20%
http://www.bicycling.com/garmin-insider/featured-stories/exclusive-interview-vaughters-reveals-more-about-his-doping-and-new-?page=0,3
In his defense, then yes, the question is did he bow out because he didn`t want to have to go to the same extremes as the 60% crowd to remain competitive. If you want to delve into The Clinic, then there are a few threads, but try and resist, it`s a depressing place. His choice of doctor doesn`t do him any favours either.
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=13790
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=9214
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=10938
 

Sikochi

Maximum Pace
Sep 13, 2010
1,149
49
68
Kochi
#18
Now, within the peloton, doping can get a coveted yearly spot and perhaps move you up enough to get on a classics.
Compare and contrast this year`s Classics results/performances with last year`s. The differences are purely explainable by adopting different training methodologies...
 

Sikochi

Maximum Pace
Sep 13, 2010
1,149
49
68
Kochi
#19
It is common now in every sport... if someone excels, he is either "doping" or "drugged" or doing something illegal.. To me this means these anti-doping agencies are not keeping up with their jobs... they are also screwing the glory of the victories of these men and women. And sometimes the motivation is just political. I suggest they also put their official stamp when somebody won and is "clean"...asap. So less people will doubt these winners when they won...
I`m sure the anti-doping agencies are doing there very best, but they are fighting an avalanche. Firstly, they don`t have the funding; secondly, they are always playing catch-up - trying to develop tests that are already in the public domain (hence, why they can`t stamp winners cf re-tests on 1999 T De F samples for EPO); thirdly, lack of knowledge - cf the BALCO affair; fourthly they have to be able to categorically prove doping to withstand the legal challenges...etc...

It`s the drug cheats who are screwing the victories - the poor women`s hammer thrower at the Olympics (can`t remember precisely which sport). She was denied the feeling of knowing at the time she won, taking the crowd`s applause etc, receiving gold at the medal ceremony, because the winner cheated and wasn`t caught until afterwards.
 

GSAstuto

Maximum Pace
Oct 11, 2009
945
242
103
tokyo
www.roadfixie.com
#20
It's not unreasonable that doping has some relevant effect in performance. But much does talent and skill. Look at Coppi's 1950's ascent of Alpe d' Huez at 41:00 - so you say he doped? Even if he did - the only thing they had in 1952 was amphetamines. Meth is not going to get you a 41 on the Alp d' Huez.

There were some gains in performance, particularly in the 80's and 90's when the PED technology matured to become more relevant. But there were ALSO massive gains due to technology, training and recruitment techniques. Plus the course itself changed. So, what are you really measuring?? To make this profound distinction you need to take the same athlete and run them doped and undoped on identical gear, training, etc.

Wiggo riding and speaking as he does - seemingly both sides of his mouth at once - as anyone who is even slightly 'mod' related would understand the tight connection of certain pharms with the culture - would also KNOW that he is straight up, by the same token. Especially regarding the estrangement with his Dad, a pretty well known, very talented, drunk loser [RIP]. I bet just NOT WANTING to be like his Dad was the biggest PED in his kit bag!

I look forward to this movie as it might portray a very cool individual working hard in the 'farm league' of EU Pro Track and Continental Racing. Paying his dues and then 'getting his'. Everyone loves an underdog, scrapper story, and Wiggins surely has one. And I bet he has a few side stories that will make interesting vingettes as well.

Compare and contrast this year`s Classics results/performances with last year`s. The differences are purely explainable by adopting different training methodologies...