What's new

Help Reckless driver files "higaitodoke" against me after I road raged back. Other's experiences?

Bit of an update…

After weeks of little to nothing happening, I finally got a call about 10 days ago from the cops (or rather my wife did as I was working at the time), asking if I was truly sorry, reminding me of my "need to follow the rules", and other rather inane sounding stuff.

A few days later, some legal representative for the driver called her to discuss settling out of court. After a bit of to-ing and fro-ing, he yesterday suggested a settlement of ¥350,000, which apparently includes the repair cost of the left hand mirror, of which they gave a figure of just over ¥110,000.

I've requested a copy of the repair estimate/bill, and I'll go to my local Toyota dealer and get it verified, as ¥110,000 for one mirror + labour costs sounds somewhat excessive to me. I've also asked the remaining ¥240,000 to be itemised. As Tanki mentioned before, I accept that I need to give some money for his "inconvenience", but I feel it needs to be proportional.

I guess they've put that figure out there with expectation of negotiation, which again, because of Tanki's advice of not letting myself get played, means I'll be driving the figure down all I can.

According to my wife, who has been dealing with most of this as, whilst my Japanese is fine for day to day, I'm out of my depth with legal stuff, the driver has been consistently pushing for my punishment, and has not taken off the Higaitodoke.
She mentioned that after him and his legal Rep spoke with the police, it looks like the cops are happy to let it be an out of court affair, which got me wondering – Might they have told him that they wouldn't be taking this very far if at all, and that if so, it might give me a bit of leverage in the negotiations…
I don't want to overplay my hand though, as he may decide to leave the higaitodoke in place if I offer too low-ball an offer.
That said, from what I understand, if he leaves the higaitodoke on, and the police do take action against me, he only gets the repair costs re-imbursed, and any fine I might receive goes into the cops' coffers and not in his pocket, so it's in his interest to do the out of court thing too.

With a bit of luck, this'll be under the bridge soon; I don't want to pay a silly amount, but on the other hand, any police action could negatively impact my (and by extension my wife's) future, and it's also, needless to say, causing a bit of grief between us too as she's the one dealing with the cops/legal stuff.
 
Bit of an update…

After weeks of little to nothing happening, I finally got a call about 10 days ago from the cops (or rather my wife did as I was working at the time), asking if I was truly sorry, reminding me of my "need to follow the rules", and other rather inane sounding stuff.

A few days later, some legal representative for the driver called her to discuss settling out of court. After a bit of to-ing and fro-ing, he yesterday suggested a settlement of ¥350,000, which apparently includes the repair cost of the left hand mirror, of which they gave a figure of just over ¥110,000.

I've requested a copy of the repair estimate/bill, and I'll go to my local Toyota dealer and get it verified, as ¥110,000 for one mirror + labour costs sounds somewhat excessive to me. I've also asked the remaining ¥240,000 to be itemised. As Tanki mentioned before, I accept that I need to give some money for his "inconvenience", but I feel it needs to be proportional.

I guess they've put that figure out there with expectation of negotiation, which again, because of Tanki's advice of not letting myself get played, means I'll be driving the figure down all I can.

According to my wife, who has been dealing with most of this as, whilst my Japanese is fine for day to day, I'm out of my depth with legal stuff, the driver has been consistently pushing for my punishment, and has not taken off the Higaitodoke.
She mentioned that after him and his legal Rep spoke with the police, it looks like the cops are happy to let it be an out of court affair, which got me wondering – Might they have told him that they wouldn't be taking this very far if at all, and that if so, it might give me a bit of leverage in the negotiations…
I don't want to overplay my hand though, as he may decide to leave the higaitodoke in place if I offer too low-ball an offer.
That said, from what I understand, if he leaves the higaitodoke on, and the police do take action against me, he only gets the repair costs re-imbursed, and any fine I might receive goes into the cops' coffers and not in his pocket, so it's in his interest to do the out of court thing too.

With a bit of luck, this'll be under the bridge soon; I don't want to pay a silly amount, but on the other hand, any police action could negatively impact my (and by extension my wife's) future, and it's also, needless to say, causing a bit of grief between us too as she's the one dealing with the cops/legal stuff.
Thanks for keeping us updated.
I hope everything goes well.
 
I got a thread update mail. I will reply to this thread tomorrow because I am celebrating and inebriated at the moment. Congratulations. You don't have to agree to those terms of the settlement, that is a speculative shake down. More tomorrow. I need to ask you a few questions. I am not even sure if the police have actually even submitted anything to the prosecutor who isn't even interested. Later ne.
 
OK a few points maybe not in a coherent order:

I think you need someone else not your wife to negotiate the settlement.

You want itemised evidence of the damage and how much it cost to repair. Also get your own statements.
(As I told you about my own case, there are going rates for damage and injury. It was 3 man for hitting the yob and 2man more because he had been to the doctor's and got a note).

From everything you have said and the timeline it looks like the police have just filed the incident and accepted his complaint. It isn't the prosecutor that wants an out of court settlement. They haven't had you in again to make that report.

Apropos of nothing my wife has followed this incident and always thought the guy wants money not punishment.

Regarding overplaying your hand and leaving the higaitodoke in place. Not sure about this one. I already said that even if the police have to send a report to the prosecutor, the prosecutor would still ask you to settle out of court. However I am a cyclist not a psychic. In my case they just filed the report, they didn't arrest me or charge me with any offence. However in my case the complainant was known to the police as an anti-social element. You need to make the judgement call if you and the Mrs can endure the delay and uncertainty of outcome.

I am just repeating myself here. Sorry not really advice.


However your wife is not a legal rep, not disinterested and not au fait with the games. Her discomfort and fear for you is something the opposition can play on. And it is a strain on you both. You need an intermediary to check and agree the costs of the material damage, and offer the goodwill payment, and check that it is a legally binding forever agreement imho. And get all the proposals in writing to show you are actively in settlement negotiations. You should be keeping a written timeline of all contact with the police and the legal reps.
 
This is good advice, especially with the wife involvement. Get a friend or someone who will have no problem saying whatever needs to be said, without emotional attachment and that accosted stress that comes with being genuinely attached to the outcome. You wife must already feeling stress about this whole situation. If she is just a bystander and you do that for her my guess is it will make the whole situation easier to deal with.

Just my 5c based on imagining me in your shoes!!!
 
Apologies for the late follow up, was pretty busy over the weekend.

Got a copy of the repair bill. Just shy of ¥120,000. I'm inclined to believe it's all legit as it's from an actual Toyota Garage; I can't imagine them fiddling stuff just so the driver could get a little extra cash.
Repairs appear to be consistent with what the cops told me I'd damaged on the day. The repair bill is dated 10 days after the incident, so he may now try to claim that he couldn't use his car all that time, pushing up his financial claim for his "inconvenience", though the actual mirror glass wasn't broken, just the movement action, and plastic casing I believe.

We've also requested how the remaining figure they've come to has been calculated, but still waiting on that.



So, from my sketchy understanding, things will progress from here in one of the following ways -

1. I'll offer less than they're demanding to have the Higaitodoke removed and cover his repairs/inconvenience/apology money, but still a reasonable amount, they'll accept, and everyone's happy enough.
2. He won't accept what I offer and leave the Higaitodoke on, so the cops will continue their investigation.

In the case of #2, it'll then be -

A) The cops/prosecutor will accept my reason for what I did (Highly unlikely I feel given the cops' conduct so far - more on that below), not take any further action, and advise an out of court settlement, which would put me in a stronger position regarding how much I'd pay beyond the repairs.
B) I'll receive some kind of punishment (most likely a fine), and have to pay the repairs as well, but the driver would receive no money other than that.

Do the above 4 points above sound about right?



I had to go to a funeral at the start of the year, costing many tens of thousands of Yen in flights, etc, and don't have so much in the coffers right now, so I'm having to weigh up whether this is going to work out costing less money with/without legal representation. At the moment, it's looking like it'd be less without, even if I were to pay the full amount they're demanding to remove the Higaitodoke.
Substituting the wife for an intermediary is something I've wanted to do already, but all the Japanese people I know who I feel I could trust to handle a situation like this are colleagues, and I'm sure you'll understand that I want to keep this as far away from work as possible.


Regarding my lack of faith in the cops, 6 weeks on and it still strikes me as incredible that they don't seem to have asked what prompted someone (The fact that I'm not Japanese is irrelevant I feel) whose been here more than 10 years with no prior offences, who wasn't drunk at the time, early on a Sunday morning on the way to work, to react the way I did.
When the cops first arrived on the scene (as well as during questioning at the station) and asked me why I'd hit the car and I told them, their response was that I should have informed them, to which my reply was that they never act on such reports anyway (Drawing on previous experiences, particularly the one I mentioned in an earlier post where I'd provided video evidence of the crimes).
So during my questioning and statement, I do exactly what they told me to do - Report the driver's dangerous driving, and it seems, exactly as I said, that they're doing nothing about it.
Can anybody get their head around that?
Is there some bizarre legal standing here that says a secondary crime prompted by the first negates the first?

I've also been somewhat irked by the cops, who, after calling me once, leaving no name nor contact details, called again two and a half weeks later, again leaving nothing to let me know how to get back in contact, then called the wife and claimed they'd called many times, and proceeded to talk about how the driver in my case had discussed "The foreigner issue" with them - The wife explained this as apparently we foreigners are viewed as falsely claiming remorse in order to avoid/reduce punishment here - Irony ahoy?
Correct me if I'm wrong, possible claims of racism aside, is that not just completely unprofessional?
They've not been forthcoming at all with facts when I've requested them, but are happy to discuss ridiculous conjecture and hearsay with a plaintiff, then relay such inadmissible anecdotes to the wife...
I've heard many times that in a J vs NJ incident, the Japanese person's word is taken of the NJ. Is that what's happening here?
I really don't want to play the race card; it's a cheap shot, but...

As always, thank you all for your advice and comments, and apologies for the long post. I really do appreciate you taking the time to advise/comment.
 
Forgot to mention, we just missed a free consultation session from the local Bar; another one in 2 weeks time, which we're trying to book an appointment for.
 
My two cents worth, (a) as the aggressor in this case (his bad driving is irrelevant) the cops are not going to cut you any slack. You likely as with me, have very little standing in the community, have no legal representation and again were in the wrong. It would seem to me that as frustrating as it was it was incumbent on you(not your wife) to go to the police station and spend however long it took to see the bloke who called you. (b) Are they acting unprofessionally? Yes , if you apply your own country's standards but this is Japan with it's own way of doing things. The foreigner factor works two ways, I've seen many of us get away with stuff that Japanese would get busted for, because the hassle of doing everything at a slower pace and in English isn't worth it for the cops. The flip side is, the perception of the victim here, even if biased, is against you. Get that free advice from a professional and keep saving your pennies. Might be worth taking the financial hit to save your wife from stress?
 
This is what is the standard cop behavior here in JP, it sure has good and bad sides. If you haven't gone to Police station, go as soon as possible. Even with a broken JP it will show a willing to settle and remorse. In their view it shows that you are committed to solve the issue, being present and take the problems in your hands, if you can't handle almost any JP, take your wife with you but try to be polite and say sorry as much as possible (also explain that you are sorry for not following their calls, but you didn't knew and will take care next time). You know, do try to point they are inconsistent, you gain no points.

Think that JP is a community driven environment, the police will only go after problems that hurted someone and by this I mean physically (as far as I understand). They will allow all kind of crazy person biking on the sidewalk with electric bikes at 20 km/h, but if someone walks in front of you in middle of a lane, you hurted that person and this is a issue to the community.

I see a very close similarity in JP police as border control in any country, besides some very strict points, everything is on discern of the officer in front of you, and he can give you a hard time or not depending on their mood.
 
Leave your wife out of it as much as possible. This sort of stuff is just another brick on the 'yappari, marrying a foreigner was not a good idea' wall.
Get somebody else to help, better yet... borrow some money off your siblings or somewhere... pay this shit off and put it behind you.... the longer you let this drag on the worse for all.... get some extra work till you've paid it off.... be as humble as possible.... (then find out where this guy lives and break his other mirror without getting caught).
 
Leave your wife out of it as much as possible. This sort of stuff is just another brick on the 'yappari, marrying a foreigner was not a good idea' wall.
Get somebody else to help, better yet... borrow some money off your siblings or somewhere... pay this shit off and put it behind you.... the longer you let this drag on the worse for all.... get some extra work till you've paid it off.... be as humble as possible.... (then find out where this guy lives and break his other mirror without getting caught).
Totally right!
 
Mate 2 or 3 additional things.

The car driver can sue you for damages in civil court, even if the police don't prosecute. He can make a claim show his damage report and show he has tried to make an out of court settlement with you. You have to go to civil court to contest it or it will automatically go against you probably completely on his terms.
This is why I am telling you to look like you are showing willing with the out of court settlement, and plot the timeline. In civil court you can show your reckless driving report for what it is worth. However I am not sure you want it to go down this route. That settlement is going to include the further costs of the driver's legal rep who is trying to make an out of court settlement with you at the moment maybe.

Please get over your own victim status. It isn't doing you any favours. Those cops don't have it in for you. In fact the whole foreigner not really remorse spiel looks like inside information on the opposition and they are giving you a hint on the best exit strategy.

And get that free local bar association advice. They are the best source for the how or if you can use the reckless driving to decrease the cost of your own culpability. And what are legitimate inconvenience costs( I think car insurance probably covers a replacement vehicle while a damaged one is being repaired).

Sorry it has been a hard year for you. It will be water under the bridge soon enough. The uncertainty is a drag, let us know what the bar assoc. advise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jdd
Cheers Kiwisimon, Bruno BQ, and Tanki, thank you all for your advice and thoughts on the matter.

We've managed to get a free legal consultation for Monday next week at City Hall, and we're trying to ascertain what a "reasonable" amount to pay is in these circumstances (You mentioned before Tanki that there is some kind of "Guide" with a figure for level of injury/inconvenience), then offer that with a bit extra as an act of good faith. I presume that the amount they have asked for has some wiggle room for negotiation(?).
However, if push comes to shove, as you point out Tanki, further legal action will just push the costs up, so perhaps paying the full, or near, amount they're demanding may be worth it just to have it over and done with, even if it means clearing me out financially.

With the legal advice on Monday, we can then negotiate better, and with a little bit of luck this'll be all wrapped up soon.

Didn't mean to come across as playing the victim card, I've just been frustrated by what appears to be a complete lack of objectivity by the cops; that my act did not exist in a vacuum and that there were mitigating circumstances, whether they have proof of them or not. No smoke without fire, and all that.

Anyway, thanks again, and I hope I can update with a positive outcome soon.

Have a great weekend everyone.
 
Nah mate, it's cool, we all understand. I had some nut job do the swerve in on me, nice and close, then have to correct back onto the right path before he ran off the road trick. Totally without reason. Absolutely clear country road. Anyway he was obviously going to the golf course up the road, so when i got to the entrance I looked in and there he was sitting up in his shiny BMW. I popped in for a chat. Kept it nice and civil but I wouldn't have minded popping his fat nose @Tanki style. :innocent:


Didn't mean to come across as playing the victim card, I've just been frustrated by what appears to be a complete lack of objectivity by the cops; that my act did not exist in a vacuum and that there were mitigating circumstances, whether they have proof of them or not. No smoke without fire, and all that.
 
So, Monday... As I was working, I couldn't attend, so the wife went.
She only got 20 mins with the freebie lawyer, who was apparently reticent to (i.e. wouldn't/didn't) put a price on things. The only useful advice offered was, in the event that any offers we make are rejected, to attempt to at least pay the repair costs, which would show me in a better light (showing good faith), and would complicate things for the other party a bit. Even if they declined that, I still end up looking co-operative and trying to do the right thing if he were to, as you suggested he could, file a civil action against me at a later date.

But there's more...
A few of you have advised me to get legal counsel instead of my wife, but on balance, doing without has been the only viable financial option as with a lawyer it's just going to push up my costs to dizzying heights.
She's been dealing with his lawyer, and then telling me what's been said when I've come home from work.
After the first time he'd talked to her, she said he'd asked her how much we could afford to pay. She told me that she'd said she wasn't sure, and that she'd told him it would depend on how much the repair costs were, which, I learned a couple of days ago, was a bit economical with the truth...

I'd very early on said that she shouldn't give them any numbers, but it seems she'd already let slip (possibly before I'd said that) that we could maybe go ¥200,000 on top of the repair costs, being dependent on what those repair costs were.
It seems she got a bit scared about how I'd react, and hid it from me.
In retrospect, this was an unfair move on their side, as by then the repairs had been done, and they knew exactly how much they were, but neglected to tell us, and we only learned what they were after we requested a copy of the invoice.
So, it seems, with the repairs coming to around ¥120,000, and the wife blurting out that we could probably go another ¥200,000, this is how they came to their ¥350,000 figure.
All this came to light after the wife was getting super stressed, and I said that I couldn't understand how she was THAT stressed, and something in me heard the penny drop, so I asked her, and she eventually confessed to inadvertently giving that figure.

I couldn't get angry with her, she's been doing her best in a situation that's far from ideal, and in a way, it was kind of a relief - I now knew how they'd got their figure, and also knew that if I went in with a low-ball figure, they'd reject it outright, so I've had to bite the bullet, accept that the decision of "how much" has largely been taken out of my hands, and yesterday we mailed to offer ¥300,000, which is ridiculous when considering what happened, but I just have to keep telling myself that it's only money, and that perhaps it's worth it in terms of being able to get on with life again. As TheBlob said in the thread, it's just the price of a shit holiday.
I'm surprised to find that this hasn't been getting me down too much; in fact the thing that's got me down most is the lack of action against him from the police; asking him awkward questions such as what made me beat the shit out of his car, and how he'd managed to keep up with me as I tried to continue to work in a built up inner city environment when there are traffic lights every hundred metres, i.e. inferring that they know he'd grievously broken traffic laws, would be a good start... But I digress...

So, now we're waiting to hear back from them. I'd be surprised if they rejected it; it's reasonably close to what they wanted, and I'd assume that his lawyer would advise him to take that, as it wouldn't be worth his time and money trying to claw another 50,000 out of me in court at a later date.

I'll update as I know more.

All in all, I'm trying to remain philosophical about it - Lessons have been learned, and knowing that I did overreact that day, I've been trying to rein myself in a bit too, which is no bad thing.


Apologies for the (very) long update

Cheers, and have a great weekend.
 
Last edited:
A few random thoughts:
The opposition are playing poker with you if they reject your offer. If they go to small claims court there is no guarantee they will get the money they are asking for. I suspect that the court would come up with a figure more to your advantage. (I am a random guy on t'internet)

As the bar advisor said keep the evidence of being cooperative, and as I said keep a timeline of every contact with everybody. If you need to contest the claim you can also introduce your report for dangerous driving, and the drivers history on the road or in courts may come under scrutiny. This may or may not help you.

This one is very random. You can sue him. Dangerous driving, and extortion with racist overtones. I don't think you will win, but I don't know anything about the driver. Is he a member of an anti-social group, extremist fringe, history in small claims courts, priors for reckless driving etc. It is possible that there is a reason he prefers an out of court settlement.



Some non-random thoughts.
Obviously the relationship of you and the Mrs is the most important thing and I am glad you aren't letting events cause any rifts between you. What is done is done out of love.

All the best.
glad it is over-ish.
If they accept, take wifey out for a nice dinner.
She earned it!
But who's going to pay the bill? :p
 
It is nice of you to update all of us. I guess we always have something to learn what shit happens.

Good luck on the offer.
 
Morning all,

We got a call from his legal rep yesterday; the driver's accepted the offer.
The wife's going to the legal rep's office on Tuesday to do all the necessary paperwork.

It's more than he deserves, and more than I wanted to pay, but if it means the wife and I can put this behind us and get on with life...

The wife has already had her "Thank you" dinner, but I feel another one might be on the cards.
 
Morning all,

We got a call from his legal rep yesterday; the driver's accepted the offer.
The wife's going to the legal rep's office on Tuesday to do all the necessary paperwork.

It's more than he deserves, and more than I wanted to pay, but if it means the wife and I can put this behind us and get on with life...

The wife has already had her "Thank you" dinner, but I feel another one might be on the cards.
Glad to hear it is nearly behind you. Maybe a thank you Coach bag is in order? :glasses:
 
Back
Top Bottom