Power Meter

theBlob

Bokeh master
Sep 28, 2011
2,863
1,450
129
...
#4
Nice result Andy, although not unexpected! Now you have been bitten you just have to wait till your mind gets used to the price of them. My advice is spend a lot of time studying the really expensive ones then when you think hat is normal go and look at the cheaper ones and you will be suddenly surprised at how "cheap" they are.

From what I have seen the pioneer looks very nice...
 
Likes: Adam Cobain

baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
427
79
48
Fukushima
#9
I just saw on the Garmin website that they have pedal-based powermeters, which seems like the optimal solution, since:

A. you get the option of dual measurement (like the $2000 Pioneer meter)
B. a price more like the single-measurement Stages,
C. but you don't have to take the crank apart or use any BB conversion kids,
D. nor do you have to change your wheel.
E. Plus you can easily use it on any virtually bike.
 

Azikara

Speeding Up
Feb 2, 2011
49
18
28
Tokyo and Nagoya
#10
Andy,

Was that 360W measured using a powertap or Strava? Either way, that's a very, very respectable effort. I find the best 20 min efforts I've ever had were uphill. Being a smaller, lighter guy, I can't seem to push as hard on the flats. I'm sure you're closer to 380 uphill at the least. I wonder what your coach would have to say about that. I think power is pretty absolute. Meaning, you should try for your best effort from which to baseline your intervals. Perhaps give it a whirl on one of your local climbs?

What kind of power to weight FTP do you have? Have you seen this: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/power-profiling ? It should give you an idea of how you compare with category amateurs in the US as well as give you a sense of your type (sprinter, all rounder, TT etc.)

T
 

theBlob

Bokeh master
Sep 28, 2011
2,863
1,450
129
...
#11
Climbing FTP is higher because of time spent out of the saddle, and that is not considered an accurate representation of FTP due to rider weight being a factor in the output.
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
1,584
1,271
133
Niigata
#12
Andy,

Was that 360W measured using a powertap or Strava? Either way, that's a very, very respectable effort. I find the best 20 min efforts I've ever had were uphill. Being a smaller, lighter guy, I can't seem to push as hard on the flats. I'm sure you're closer to 380 uphill at the least. I wonder what your coach would have to say about that. I think power is pretty absolute. Meaning, you should try for your best effort from which to baseline your intervals. Perhaps give it a whirl on one of your local climbs?

What kind of power to weight FTP do you have? Have you seen this: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/power-profiling ? It should give you an idea of how you compare with category amateurs in the US as well as give you a sense of your type (sprinter, all rounder, TT etc.)

T
I was advised to do it on the flat because, like you say, hills can produce a slightly higher wattage. As one of my mates said. "It'll look good on paper, but it'll make your training harder!"

I used a powertap. 360 W and estimated FTP 335 for the time being.

I think I could push 400 on a hill as climbing is one of my strong points. This is an estimate just based on what power friends (much lighter than me) are knocking out when we ride side by side during training. I held 420 watts on the trainer last week but gave up after 10 minutes!

Yes I was looking at that chart while sipping on a beer in the bath last night. I'm particularly interested in the power to rate ratio. Motivation to keep the weight down!

Andy

www.jyonnobitime.com/time
 

Azikara

Speeding Up
Feb 2, 2011
49
18
28
Tokyo and Nagoya
#13
This is an estimate just based on what power friends (much lighter than me) are knocking out when we ride side by side during training.
Got it Andy. 335 sounds like a reasonable number given that most FTP tests go for 0.95 x the 20 min power number and you went for 17:24.

The side by side thing is really tricky to rely upon. For example, the last "fitness/FTP test" I did was on a 14.6 km course (flat, but out and back), standard road bike, and I averaged 37.8 kph for 24:40 but only used 273 W according to my SRM. So your 1 kph advantage comes at an extra 87 W! That's a chunk of power. Aerodynamics has a lot to do with it. Best 20 mins ever was 321 W but going uphill. What I would do to have that number for a threshold.
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
1,584
1,271
133
Niigata
#15
Got it Andy. 335 sounds like a reasonable number given that most FTP tests go for 0.95 x the 20 min power number and you went for 17:24.

The side by side thing is really tricky to rely upon. For example, the last "fitness/FTP test" I did was on a 14.6 km course (flat, but out and back), standard road bike, and I averaged 37.8 kph for 24:40 but only used 273 W according to my SRM. So your 1 kph advantage comes at an extra 87 W! That's a chunk of power. Aerodynamics has a lot to do with it. Best 20 mins ever was 321 W but going uphill. What I would do to have that number for a threshold.
Yes, that's how it was calculated as I ran out of road for 20 minutes. I rode on the coast into the wind. Which is strong here in Niigata. They put ropes on the buildings to help folks get around the corners...

I've also maybe got a few kilos on you? 75 kg in the summer but I usually let it slide back to 80 or over as we enter winter. Haven't checked it recently. Probably 77, 78...

Andy

www.jyonnobitime.com/time
 

AlanW

Maximum Pace
Jan 30, 2007
1,214
435
103
Tokyo
#16
Andy, the Power2Max meters are substabtially cheaper and the Type S appears to be just as functional as the Quarq and SRM. There's no Japanese distributor but you could pick one up when you go back to the UK.

I did an FTP run along the Arakawa a couple of weeks ago. Not as "pure" as on a trainer but the path was empty enough for me to get some numbers. I'm still some way off what you can put out so will have to rely on being a bit skinnier!

AW.
 

theBlob

Bokeh master
Sep 28, 2011
2,863
1,450
129
...
#17
I do my testing on the morning course at Saiko in Saitama, which has short risers, and downhills of river banks, and one time I come to a complete stop to turn around. But it doesn't really matter, because what is important consistency. As long as I always do it there then I should be able to gauge improvement.

Doing one off testing outdoors with borrowed equipment doesn't really tell you much, unless you can borrow the same equipment and use it in the same location particularly with the same temperature.
My 20min is about 320W, 60min is about 300W, 120min 280W. It may be over or under depending on the day.

Golden cheetah has bunches of interesting info for analysis. Free software you can download.

I love mine, cannot imagine not having it on my bike, just makes hammering it out more challenging, and rewarding on a personal level, and therefore fun.
 
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andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
1,584
1,271
133
Niigata
#19
Andy, the Power2Max meters are substabtially cheaper and the Type S appears to be just as functional as the Quarq and SRM. There's no Japanese distributor but you could pick one up when you go back to the UK.

I did an FTP run along the Arakawa a couple of weeks ago. Not as "pure" as on a trainer but the path was empty enough for me to get some numbers. I'm still some way off what you can put out so will have to rely on being a bit skinnier!

AW.
Cheers Alan,

Did you get one of these? They don't seem that cheap if 1000 euros goes for about 14,000 yen.

Are we on for Yatsugatake!? I need some motivation to get me through the winter!

Andy

www.jyonnobitime.com/time
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
1,584
1,271
133
Niigata
#20
I do my testing on the morning course at Saiko in Saitama, which has short risers, and downhills of river banks, and one time I come to a complete stop to turn around. But it doesn't really matter, because what is important consistency. As long as I always do it there then I should be able to gauge improvement.

Doing one off testing outdoors with borrowed equipment doesn't really tell you much, unless you can borrow the same equipment and use it in the same location particularly with the same temperature.
My 20min is about 320W, 60min is about 300W, 120min 280W. It may be over or under depending on the day.

Golden cheetah has bunches of interesting info for analysis. Free software you can download.

I love mine, cannot imagine not having it on my bike, just makes hammering it out more challenging, and rewarding on a personal level, and therefore fun.
Yep, I understand that is important to keep the location the same.

I tried to do my test on a flat road into the head wind. There are lots of great roads going inland but I chose the coast as it is the only road that can be (potentially) ridden (for further testing) during the winter.

I hope to have my own power meter soon for consistency too. Keeping the temperature the same is not really possible but I guess we can fudge that.

I'm uploading my data to Training Peaks.

I wrote a bit more about the FTP test here:

http://www.jyonnobitime.com/time/2014/11/analysing-ftp-data.html

Cheers, Andy

www.jyonnobitime.com/time