Tech Pedals

wexford

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#1
I started using LOOK pedals back when the badger made them the thing to have. It's been a while. I also went through some MAVIC and TIME pedals at the time. Then there was that gap of some 20 years so when I got back on the bike I immediately bought LOOK again. I bought the LOOK carbon pro. Fecking light. Loved them for about 10 months and then the left one broke. Looked like a design issue. Not buying them again. Next up was LOOK KEO MAX 2 which I'm currently riding. I've 2 sets. One in Ireland and one here.

I swapped my crank to a compact before a gran fondo early October last year. Got soaked in the typhoon rain that day. Got drenched when I cycled though a flood, made it back to Tokyo and was off the next day for 3 weeks to Ireland. Poor bike. No time to clean it although I did dry it off.

Been a creak in my crank ever since. I had the crank off about three times now to see if I can get the creak out of it. No luck. Never dawned on me that it could be the pedals. I finally felt them up today. The right pedal spins quite fast and free but makes a grinding noise and can get stuck in one place the odd time. The left one is smooth but not as free. Wonder if I can open them and have a look inside.

Went to a home center with the pedal to find the right spanner. Turns out its a 19". Popped the right one open first. Oh. Rust and crap everywhere. I guess that pedal got submerged in the flood that time. Tried to clean it up with a rag but I think I need some fine sand paper or something to take more rust off. I re-greased it and set it back in. Still not smooth but spins freely and better than before. It will do for now. Left side was much better but still gave it a clean up and re-greased it.

I still have the other carbon pro pedals. I wonder if the axel could be interchangeable. May have to try that. I'm sure the other ones are in good nick. Other than that any recommendations for cleaning up rust on bearings and surrounding washers or should I just cough up for new pedals (assuming the other axel doesn't work).

What pedals do other folk use? Are the Dura Ace ones any good? I'm starting to read a lot of bad things about the LOOK pedals. They are light but seem like they need more maintenance to keep them going. They are only about 8 months old at this stage. Not so impressed.
 

saibot

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May 29, 2012
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#2
DuraAce pedals is a safe bet, more or less unbreakable with minimum to no maintenance required.

Personally I prefer my speedplays, but the cleats are harder to walk in and are more expensive than spd cleats. They also require a fair bit of maintenance, repacking of grease, and lubing the cleats regularly.
if you just wanna set and forget, DA pedals are the way to go.
 
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TCC

Tokyo Cycling Club
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#3
Dura Ace; excellent. I have stormed around on mine for over 2 years now with not a single issue. The click in is really loud and positive, and they are the hardest pedal out there. And the cleats are everywhere.

Time; utter utter utter junk. Avoid like the plague. No idea how they even thought about releasing them. They fail on pretty much every possible engineering standard and are total rubbish.

Look; never used, but the bearings always seem massively over tight when I have twiddled them.

Speedplay; yeah, loads of people like them, but the cleats are long.
 

wexford

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#4
Yeah, my time in TIME didn't last long. junk back then anyway as you say. I can't recall why I was interested in them? Perhaps they were the first to add a degree of movement or was that the MAVICs? Anyway - I fecked up my knees on all of these as a kid.

Time; utter utter utter junk. Avoid like the plague. No idea how they even thought about releasing them. They fail on pretty much every possible engineering standard and are total rubbish.
 

TCC

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#5


One 'needle roller' and one 'ball bearing'

When you took it apart, did you spin each of these bearings? If so, which one was rough. Should be easy to replace them
 
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wexford

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#6
Where the feck do you always find such awesome diagrams for the technical stuff :) That is exactly what it looks like except...

No needle bearing on each one. Probably still in the pedal. But didn't come out when I was poking my finger in cleaning and shaking things. The Ball bearing can spin but not sure if it felt rough or not. Not as free spinning as I would think though. This is the first time opening pedals so no actual feel experience. The metal ring on the left of it in that diagram is locked in place. A lock ring of some sort I am sure. The ring on the right of the bearing also spins free. I cleaned it all but surface of bearing feels rough still. I greased the end all over and all round the ball bearing, the ring and the washer ring. Maybe I should add some plumbers tape to that dust cap when I fix it properly.

Will take a photo next time I have it apart. But yeah, in general these pedals never seemed to go heavy side down at traffic lights. Am interested to see if I got the click out of them at least or not.
 

TCC

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#8
@wexford ; going through your post...

-On each one? You mean on both the left and right axle you took out?

-The ball bearing (which is actually correctly called a 'deep groove cartridge bearing') may not spin freely, as it may have a heavy seal on it. It should be smooth though, without grittiness, or notching. If either of these two things exist, you just need to get new bearings. They are cheap.

-What 'metal ring' on the left of what?

-What 'ring' on the right of what bearing?

-Surface of 'ball bearing'? Feels rough? What do you mean? The metal is pitted / corroded? Or the bearing does not turn smoothly?

-You don't need to grease outside bearings. There are no fiction parts outside of the cartridge bearings.

-Plumbers tape; no, don't add anything to the design.
 

TCC

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#10
If you haven't seen it already, you can take a look at this video for general how-to service of the looks.

'When we repack it, all the fresh grease will squeeze inside the cartridges'

Hahaha. No. No it won't.

This video gives no indication of what the bearing system is at the outside end of the axle, sitting at the bottom of the chamber in the pedal body. I assume, going by the diagram I got from the Look site, that this is the needle bearing unit they refer to. This will be pressed into to pedal body and impossible to get out. Cleaning it will be pretty much guess work, and involve emptying a entire can of WD40 into it, until it starts running clean.

"The fact that Look don't allow for a replacement of the deep groove cartridge bearings which are set onto the axle is lame. Cartridge bearings last about a year, under medium to heavy use, and a lot less time if you start throwing dirt, water, and general grime at them." EDIT; this is wrong. The guy in the video said this, and it is false. You can replace the bearings no problem. My error for believing him without testing / research of my own.
 

TCC

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Jun 30, 2013
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#12
OK, I get it now.

Look here...

http://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...k-keo-pedals-upgrade-installation-w-pics.html

To get the old bearing off the spindle, you need to belt the collar off. Follow the instructions in that link.

Once you get the bearing off, take a photo of it and post it up here. We can check it out for you and tell you which type of bearing it is, and how to get a new one (they are about 400yen each)

You will then need to super clean out the chamber in the pedal shell, put the new bearing on the axle, hammer the collar back on, lube up the end of the axle and reassemble.

Nice little project and should end up with some perfectly smooth pedals again.

And cost about 1000yen all in.
 

wexford

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#13
The ball bearing is smooth in my opinion.

The 'metal ring' to the left of the ball bearing in the labeled diagram you posted. There is a metal ring on the left, the bearing and then a free floating washer, then the dust cap. Hope that clears that up.

The surface of the ball bearing feels rough on the outside. Looks corroded I think. Definitely not as shiny as the same bearing in the other pedal nor the one in your labeled diagram.

Yeah, plumbers tape was not a serious suggestion :)

The reason I put grease in there was there seemed to be old grease in there to begin with when I first pulled it out.

@wexford ; going through your post...

-On each one? You mean on both the left and right axle you took out?

-The ball bearing (which is actually correctly called a 'deep groove cartridge bearing' may not spin freely, as it may have a heavy seal on it. It should be smooth though, without grittiness, or notching. If either of these two things exist, you just need to get new bearings. They are cheap.

-What 'metal ring' on the left of what?

-What 'ring' on the right of what bearing?

-Surface of 'ball bearing'? Feels rough? What do you mean? The metal is pitted / corroded? Or the bearing does not turn smoothly?

-You don't need to grease outside bearings. There are no fiction parts outside of the cartridge bearings.

-Plumbers tape; no, don't add anything to the design.
I believe the ball bearing is straight. The washer to the right of it is free floating though and I guess the way it was resting, it gives the appearance that things aren't straight.

Is that bearing sitting loose on the axle, or it is not on straight?
When the axel is back in the pedal, this pedal makes a noise when I rotate the axel. It doesn't currently feel rough though but it does sound a bit like a scraping noise as the axel is being rotated. I wonder if its the needle bearing.
 

TCC

Tokyo Cycling Club
Jun 30, 2013
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#14
The 'metal ring' to the left of the ball bearing in the labeled diagram you posted. There is a metal ring on the left, the bearing and then a free floating washer, then the dust cap. Hope that clears that up.
Sweet nice one. Yeah, all clear now, cheers

I believe the ball bearing is straight. The washer to the right of it is free floating though and I guess the way it was resting, it gives the appearance that things aren't straight.
Yeah that is part of the locating system for this bearing arrangement. Was hard to work it out just looking at your assembled axle and the Look assembled diagram. Makes sense now I looked at someone take it apart on BikeForum

When the axel is back in the pedal, this pedal makes a noise when I rotate the axel. It doesn't currently feel rough though but it does sound a bit like a scraping noise as the axel is being rotated. I wonder if its the needle bearing.
It could be. It could also be the cartridge bearings. Just because they are smooth when you turn them with your hands, doesn't mean that are not shagged; putting them into place in a compressed system will show up any knackered-ness. I would just replace them, as they are only a few 100yen each. If the pedals are still making a noise, then it is the needle system, which can possibly be sorted by blasting it out with a load of WD40, them loading with nice grease.

And another LOL at that video; they guy doesn't know what he is talking about - claiming that if the deep groove bearings are dead you need to buy a whole new axle assembly. Fail.

Looking forward to seeing you get these sorted, A-Team style!
 

wexford

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#15
Guess I'll have to go to the home center again to get some deep sockets so it will probably cost more. Will check my carbon pro axels later this week to see if they match up. New stuff is also tempting:rolleyes:
 
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TCC

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#16
Haha, you can surely improvise, or borrow a deep socket?

Or yeah, just buy one, become an expert at servicing Look pedals and set yourself up as the main man for the job, charging a couple of 1000yen each time. Sorted!!
 

TCC

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#17
...And if possible, can you measure the dimensions of the two bearings on the axle?

Thickness (probably 5mm), Outer diametre (looks about 17mm(?)) and inner diametre, which will also be the diametre of the axle, if that makes it easier to measure.

Once we get those, it will be easy to link you up with replacement bearings (or I might have some I can send you)
 

wexford

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#18
Finally got around to watching that GCN video. The KEO pedals are different me thinks in that his had two bearings to my one. When he opened up that Shimano pedal you can really see the difference in the design.

I'll have a look at my tiny collection of tools to see if there is anything I can use to get those bearings off. Thanks for all the help so far. I'm afraid I'm more "Greatest American Hero" without the suit than the A-Team though. haha.
 

wexford

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#19
I see where you got that image now @TCC. haha.

Also on the LOOK website it gives the bearing size. Although not the width.

"The pedal is built with two miniature ball bearings (12mm inner x 18mm outer diameters) and a needle roller bearing. LOOK axles are only approved once they have survived a million cycles at 100 revolutions per minute with a 90kg (198lbs) load at the center of the pedal and an eccentric rotation (replicating a bump each revolution). This test largely surpasses current standards (reference NF EN 14781)."

Can't believe the test doesn't include cycling through a flood and then leaving it unattended for 3 weeks. Real usage like.
 

timefleas

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Nov 30, 2013
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#20
Returning to the original question... of which pedals the various readers use here, I have used all kinds over the last 15 years, but my favorite, standing well above any of those mentioned above, or not mentioned at all, are Speedplay, almost any version of the X series (all interchangeable with one another), or the Nanograms that Wiggins uses if weight REALLY is critical (for me, not). A great minimalist pedal--so easy to get into, last forever, easily lubed, easily cleaned, stable and secure, shoe mounts highly adjustable, excellent control over "play"--dependent upon model. Prices range from very cheap (X-5) on up to expensive, and except for weight, and a bit more control over play, almost impossible to notice a difference between them--I actually prefer the X-5s myself.
 
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