Review o_synce navi2coach

TCC

Tokyo Cycling Club
Jun 30, 2013
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#41
The recording interval will make little difference for elevation totals. It has more of an impact on the margin of error for speed, grade calculations and Strava segment timings.
Sorry, just noticed this point. Are you saying that in a .fit file, the recording interval has an effect on the cyclic redundancy check? I was not aware of that. Care to explain?
 

joewein

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#42
If that is the case, then the bit of road outside my apartment must be bang on 0.0 metres sea-level. This is possible, of course.
So are you saying that all the GPX files you export from RideWithGPS (or whatever) start with an elevation of zero? Did check them all? And did you look at any rides starting at, say Musahiitsukaichi?

Rides starting from your home could all start at zero if you had an elevation point configured outside your apartment with a set elevation of zero.

The first GPX I checked after reading your claim had an elevation of 42 m, consistent with the elevation here in my part of Setagaya.

The GPX file has no field for initial elevation, which it would need to have if the values in the data points were relative to starting elevation instead of to sea level.

Sorry, just noticed this point. Are you saying that in a .fit file, the recording interval has an effect on the cyclic redundancy check? I was not aware of that. Care to explain?
I didn't say anything about CRCs, which are checksum to ensure the .fit file hasn't been tampered with or is incomplete.

My point was that if for example the position is only recorded in the file every 3s instead of every second, it is difficult for Strava to tell if you passed the end of a segment after 301 s or 302 s, which could make the difference between KOM or no KOM. Therefore, if your Garmin is set for Smart Recording, I'd advise changing it to "Every Second" (assuming it offers the same choice as the 500). Early versions of the Edge 500 didn't support anything but Smart Recording, which was introduced during one of the firmware upgrades.
 

TCC

Tokyo Cycling Club
Jun 30, 2013
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#43
The GPX file has no field for initial elevation, which it would need to have if the values in the data points were relative to starting elevation instead of to sea level.
As I said, these are GPX files downloaded from rides which were recorded as FIT files. The conversion being done from FIT to GPX by whatever it is they are using for conversion on the site; which we don't know about, or we would not be trying to work it all out. Given that we do not know what how they are converting from FIT to GPX (and indeed if they are converting from FIT to something proprietary for their requirements, then converting from whatever that is to GPX when a download request is fired off) they could very well be taking the initial elevation from the FIT file, bunging it in a variable, then using that to feed into whatever they are using to generate the GPX file.
 

microcord

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Aug 28, 2012
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#44
I think I'm interested.

I ordered it from Bike24 in Germany for 109 EUR + 20 EUR shipping (JPY 18,000 in total, a little cheaper than the Garmin Edge 500 without accessories) and it arrived 11 days later.
joewein said:
o_synce has come out with a Garmin compatible quarter-turn version of the Navi2Coach called the twist (model number: OSY-290)
Good, I thought: €120 or so, but it will have a twist mount.

Here's the "twist" model (OSY-290) at O-Synce's shop. Just €200 plus shipping.

Here it is at Bike24. €130 plus shipping -- an improvement from €200, but there's no mention of a twist mount, and indeed the model number is OSY135793

Google turned up a few more places selling the navi2coach, but either it's not obvious that they're selling the "twist" model or it's obvious that they're instead selling the older version (better secured with extra rubber bands or similar). Am I overlooking some other good source?

PE
 

joewein

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#45
@microcord,

The one on the Bike24 website indeed appears to be the non-twist model. There's no mention of the new holder.

The price of €200 on the o_synce site is really how much it would be. Because you're outside the EU you wouldn't be charged the VAT, so it's €32 less, but then that's exactly how much they add for shipping...

I guess you could wait until Bike24 stock the twist version if that matters.
 

microcord

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#46
The price of €200 on the o_synce site is really how much it would be. Because you're outside the EU you wouldn't be charged the VAT, so it's €32 less, but then that's exactly how much they add for shipping...

I guess you could wait until Bike24 stock the twist version if that matters.
Yes, that's what I supposed. (I was just hoping that somebody would remind me of the existence of xtremeshoppinghysteria.biz or whatever, selling such goodies at discounts.)

I'm a bit torn. One sensible thing to do is to wait till the prices come down, another sensible thing to do is to pay more, get it early, and this give myself time to figure out how to use it before I desperately want to use it. I suppose I could pay for the difference if I bought no more ace Netherlandish ales till I've worked my way through a substantial oseibo box of unexciting but decent "Premium Malts".
 

jdd

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#47
...
I suppose I could pay for the difference if I bought no more ace Netherlandish ales till I've worked my way through a substantial oseibo box of unexciting but decent "Premium Malts".
As my great-great uncle (once removed) once said, "I have measured out my life with beer glasses." :rolleyes:
 

microcord

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#48
Months later, and I still haven't bought it or any substitute, and I find myself hampered by the lack thereof. Maybe it's time to blow the cobwebs off my credit card.

Amazingly, the twist version still seems unavailable, other than directly from O_synce themselves. (Cycleservicenordic.com lists it, but under "preorder".) The only development seems to be that O_synce offers to convert your non/pre-twist version to twist. But this costs time and shipping.

Here's an uncomplimentary (but seemingly level-headed) review (of the non-twist version). One part is surprising:

The unit will freeze or reset randomly unless you use it with a speed/cadence sensor. (It was resetting all the time and making corrupt .fit files until I got a speed/cadence sensor. It's been solid since then.)
@joewein , any comment on this?
 

joewein

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#49
@microcord, my experience of using it without speed / cadence sensor has been limited: I have used the unit for a total of about 380 km on 4 bikes other than my Bike Friday this year and it never gave me any trouble.

Of course the speed readout is not as precise when going by GPS alone and there's no cadence data, but all the data came out just fine.

Regarding the other points raised in the review:
  • Compass heading when stopped
    Indeed the map display often rotates when you stop, with no apparent logic to it. This is a valid criticism. When following routes I often have to think a little what the route looked like before I stopped, to figure out which is the road I came from and which is the one I'm heading for. It's not an issue while moving, only when stopped -- not sure why.
  • Mounts
    The initial production version of the standard mount used a weaker spring than the prototypes, resulting in early production models falling off when you hit a bump. This problem had been corrected already by the time I bought mine (a year ago). The new quarter turn model is not Garmin-compatible but Joule-compatible. However, it's possible to make the standard model Garmin compatible using a $5 SRAM QuickView-Adapter (designed for Garmin 605/705) and a bit of glue. It's not very elegant, but has worked for me for the last 10,000 km.
  • Navigation
    It's true that loading a track for navigation pauses the recording. That's because the navigation menu is one level "back" from the recording level. Unlike the Garmin the n2c clearly shows when the recording is paused though, showing the top status line in reverse. One push of the start/stop button will resume the recording. I have not used the unit with turn-by-turn instructions, but I have used it for following basic GPX bread crumb trails for almost all my brevets in the past 12 months. This has worked much better than on the Garmin 500. For one, the Garmin kept changing its mind about whether I was off-course when I wasn't. Another annoying feature of the Garmin was that it automatically changed the scaling of the map. The n2c leaves you in full control at all times.
  • 12 hour time display
    I use the 24h setting, so can't comment about am/pm bugs.
 
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microcord

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#50
I'm puzzling over this notion of a speed/cadence sensor. I thought the GPS device was the speed sensor, and as for the cadence sensor, I don't even have mild curiosity about my cadence. But, hmm, OK, I suppose. I like the price of this one, but should I be looking for this kind or avoiding that kind?
 
Apr 3, 2012
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#51
I like the price of this one, but should I be looking for this kind or avoiding that kind?
Avoid. No information on how the data is transmitted to the computer. You will want something that transmits ANT+ protocol for the "o_synce navi2coach". Maybe something like this:
I'm surprised just how little ANT+ options remain. Most of the stuff seems to be BT based.

GPS only speed metering is inaccurate and you end up with noisy (error) data.
 
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microcord

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#56
There's nothing visible there either, @leicaman ; but when I quote your message (something I didn't do for @JackTheCommuter 's message), I see the code.

Again, I guess that it's discarded by AdBlock Plus (or perhaps Ghostery). I'll investigate this a little later.
 
Aug 27, 2012
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London, UK
www.macrophotofly.com
#57
Compass heading when stopped
Indeed the map display often rotates when you stop, with no apparent logic to it. This is a valid criticism
The single most annoying thing on my Garmin 800. The primary time you actually want to look at the d@mn map, stopped at a traffic light, and it randomly rotates the map so you can't actually see where you've got to go after the next 50meters.
Only way I've found to "fix" it is (i) choose "orientate map to North" rather than "orientate map with direction cycled" (ii) Only cycle North. However this has limited my riding of late.....
 
May 22, 2007
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#58
There's nothing visible there either, @leicaman ; but when I quote your message (something I didn't do for @JackTheCommuter 's message), I see the code.

Again, I guess that it's discarded by AdBlock Plus (or perhaps Ghostery). I'll investigate this a little later.
I don't see Amazon product page embeds either. I suspect this is because on the day a few weeks back when @TCC decided to autocorrect everyfuckingthing he could think of into a <media> tag, I denied all the popups saying my browser wanted to pull in info from elsewhere.
 
May 22, 2007
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#59
The single most annoying thing on my Garmin 800. The primary time you actually want to look at the d@mn map, stopped at a traffic light, and it randomly rotates the map so you can't actually see where you've got to go after the next 50meters.
Same on the Edge 810.

It does not happen on hiking GPS units such as the eTrex Legend, Montana, Oregon series that have a proper electro/magnetic compass built in.
 

TCC

Tokyo Cycling Club
Jun 30, 2013
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#60
I don't see Amazon product page embeds either. I suspect this is because on the day a few weeks back when @TCC decided to autocorrect everyfuckingthing he could think of into a <media> tag, I denied all the popups saying my browser wanted to pull in info from elsewhere.
Not my fault you can't handle the banter.