New wheels for Christmas

scandiman

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Aug 12, 2010
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#1
Have been following the thread Tom started on carbon deep section with interest but thought I should start a new one in order to not confuse things.

Right, so I am looking for an additional wheelset to my tubeless compatible Shimano 6700 (thats the only ones I have currently). There are a couple of reasons for this: Christmas is coming up, and I am not sure if I am sold on the 6700 ones.

Dont get me wrong, the 6700 are great semi budget (ie my kind of budget wheels). They definitely feel smooth and I enjoy climbing with them, but as for aerodynamics and reactivity I am just not convinced.

My riding consists roughly of:

Fast commuting (two times per week totaling 80 k);
rolling hills or mountains (once a week and again around 80 k);

I also do some light weekend touring a few times per year. No racing or such. Yearly total (will be) around 7000 k .

Criteria for new wheelset:

Slightly deeper rims;
quite stiff;
good for a semi-heavy rider (82-84 kilos and staying there);
serviceable (I know nothing beats Shimano in this aspect);
alloy rims;
and price around 50,000...or slightly more

Not too concerned about weight but around 1700 gram would be sweet.

Options I am considering:

Have someone help me build them...

Fulcrum, eg the Racing 3 clinchers. With discounts around 55,000 on wiggle.

Mavic, eg the Cosmic Elite clinchers. Around 36,000 on wiggle.

SRAM, eg the S30 AL Sprint clinchers. Around 60,000 on Wiggle.

Shimano, eg the RS80 C24 clinchers. Around 50,000 on wiggle but think that I would like slightly deeper rims.

Great sounding wheels from Tom's thread but out of my price range:

Some GS Astuto wheelset

Shimano RS80 50mm Carbon Clinchers. Around 100,000 on wiggle

Mavic Cosmic Carbone SLR Clincher Road Wheelset. Around 150,000 on Wiggle

All input greatly appreciated

/Frode
 

FarEast

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May 25, 2009
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#2
Frode,

I have the exact same wheels and took them with me to The Tour of Cameroon as a spare set to my Dura Ace.

You can't go wrong with these wheels, bomb proof and perfect for all round riding and poor weather riding.

To be honest for what you are using them for they are perfect and nothing within the price bracket you have mentioned comes close to them on the bearing and hub side of things.

The RS range is actually Ultegra hubs on Dura Ace rims and again you aren't really getting any other benifits apart from a few grams in weight loss.

Remember the most important parts of the bike is the contact surfaces, so you want to dedicate at least 100,000 - 150,000 of your budget to getting some top quality kit. But again if you are using them as commuters and training wheels then I don't really see any point apart from braging rights and bling.
 

GSAstuto

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Oct 11, 2009
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#3
I gotta agree w James here. Why I recommended the 6700s - in their price range and beyond they are really great wheels. If you change to the tubeless tires you'll notice a nice pickup in performance.Otherwise you need to get into the 150,000+ rangeto see real improvements. As it just comes down to rim depth and weight. And nothing can beat full carbon there.

FarEast;37323 said:
Frode,

I have the exact same wheels and took them with me to The Tour of Cameroon as a spare set to my Dura Ace.

You can't go wrong with these wheels, bomb proof and perfect for all round riding and poor weather riding.

To be honest for what you are using them for they are perfect and nothing within the price bracket you have mentioned comes close to them on the bearing and hub side of things.

The RS range is actually Ultegra hubs on Dura Ace rims and again you aren't really getting any other benifits apart from a few grams in weight loss.

Remember the most important parts of the bike is the contact surfaces, so you want to dedicate at least 100,000 - 150,000 of your budget to getting some top quality kit. But again if you are using them as commuters and training wheels then I don't really see any point apart from braging rights and bling.
 

Sikochi

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Sep 13, 2010
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#4
Criteria for new wheelset:

Slightly deeper rims;
quite stiff;
good for a semi-heavy rider (82-84 kilos and staying there);
serviceable (I know nothing beats Shimano in this aspect);
alloy rims;
and price around 50,000...or slightly more

Not too concerned about weight but around 1700 gram would be sweet.

Shimano, eg the RS80 C24 clinchers. Around 50,000 on wiggle but think that I would like slightly deeper rims.

/Frode
Just curious on the price for the RS-80`s, as I paid about 30-35,000 when I got them from Chain Reaction. Like FarEast said, same as the Dura Ace ones, except for the hubs and possibly (not exactly sure) the spokes. No complaints at all about them, and if anything, I prefer the RS-80 to the Powertap I have on the rear as standard these days, but such is life - the Powertap is noisy and the RS-80 was beautifully silent. My only concern would be the low spoke count, which might be an issue at your weight (I`m only around 64 kg these days) but I think the wheels have a higher limit. Also, check out Merlin cycles, as they seem to have the cheapest prices for wheels.

Personally, I would wait for the Flocycling wheels that I listed on the other thread to come on-stream, though not due til April-ish next year. Will be around $800. I will replace the front RS-80 with one of FLO 60`s when they come out.
 

basilleroux

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Jun 26, 2011
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#5
what about HED wheels; I have always found them great value for money and they are popular on the tour - Jet 4's or if they are too deep what about Ardennes?
 

trad

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Dec 4, 2006
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#6
+1 for RS 80's. also got mine from chain reaction. super all arounder - duraace rims/spokes and ultegra hubs. i think 3 or 4 of us on TCC have these now
 

scandiman

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Aug 12, 2010
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#7
Cheers folks!

FarEast, thanks for clarifying more further to my PM.

Basilleroux, what kind of HED's are you using?

Sikochi, I dont think my weight should be an issue with the RS80, these (like the 6700 for that matter) should be quite sturdy wheels

Trad, just further to Sikochi's weight point, may I ask how many kilos you are?
 

Sikochi

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#8
If you can afford, then definitely you won`t go wrong with the HED`s, prob suggest HED Jet 6. Tony Martin used a HED Jet 9 FR front clincher and Jet Stallion FR disc for his world`s TT win. But the FR`s are a bit more expensive.

A lot of info on the HED website. Also, see following comment.
Steve Hed: “With the right clincher on that Jet 6 rim, there’s probably nothing faster. Some tires are better than others aerodynamically on our rim, and Contis tend to be the best. Rolling resistance doesn’t vary with speed, and as the bikes and wheels have become more aerodynamic, rolling resistance has become a bigger percentage of overall drag. Using a wide clincher rim and reduced tire pressure, a clincher feels more like a tubular and can roll faster.”
http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2011/09/hed-jet-6-fr-wheel-review/
 

theDude

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Oct 7, 2011
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#9
timely thread, scandiman.


I've been browsing basically the same set of wheels you are seeing at wiggle. No real idea what the big diffs are, i probably don't even need new wheels, but the other thread got me thinking!


I find myself in london this week. sadly, the local Evans doesn't have ANY wheels to look at, which sucks. So will likely order something off wiggle as well.....


:bike:
 

GSAstuto

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Oct 11, 2009
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#10
Funny. They are still trying to get clinchers to feel and ride like tubulars. The aero properties of a wheel improve with rim depth and spoke counts with less effect on actual rim or tire profiles. At club level riding which is generally less than 50kph under load, these effects are even less. So unless you are riding at 400+ watts sustained @ 110 rpm , you are not likely to notice one iota of difference in your time up the arakawa.

Simply getting a decent 38 or 50 rim of nearly any brand will give you the same results. And just choose a 20spoke front which is about the best overall aero outside of special configs. Rear matters even less. Just get anything with a deep rim.

All the rest is just marketing hype.



If you can afford, then definitely you won`t go wrong with the HED`s, prob suggest HED Jet 6. Tony Martin used a HED Jet 9 FR front clincher and Jet Stallion FR disc for his world`s TT win. But the FR`s are a bit more expensive.

A lot of info on the HED website. Also, see following comment.
Steve Hed: “With the right clincher on that Jet 6 rim, there’s probably nothing faster. Some tires are better than others aerodynamically on our rim, and Contis tend to be the best. Rolling resistance doesn’t vary with speed, and as the bikes and wheels have become more aerodynamic, rolling resistance has become a bigger percentage of overall drag. Using a wide clincher rim and reduced tire pressure, a clincher feels more like a tubular and can roll faster.”
http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2011/09/hed-jet-6-fr-wheel-review/
 

FarEast

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May 25, 2009
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#11
So unless you are riding at 400+ watts sustained @ 110 rpm , you are not likely to notice one iota of difference in your time up the arakawa.
I'd like to see a Pro Tour rider maintain 400+ watts at 110rpm as well. (I think your figures are a little high there Tim :D)
 

GSAstuto

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#12
Btw if anyone wants to try various wheels lets do a shoot out test ourselves at otarumi, for example. This gives both an uphill and downhill segment. I've got 24mm, 38mm, 50mm, 60mm and 88mm wheels to play with. Plus a couple sets of wh-r501 to use as a base comparison (10,000 yen/set) you might be surprised.
 

scandiman

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Aug 12, 2010
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#13
Btw if anyone wants to try various wheels lets do a shoot out test ourselves at otarumi, for example. This gives both an uphill and downhill segment. I've got 24mm, 38mm, 50mm, 60mm and 88mm wheels to play with. Plus a couple sets of wh-r501 to use as a base comparison (10,000 yen/set) you might be surprised.
Yeah I am up for this when you are back from China. Like I said this would be out of my current budget and frankly needs but does not hurt to think about the future.
 

FarEast

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May 25, 2009
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#14
Guys,

really for the budgets you guys are looking at it really does seem that you are buying new wheels for the sake of buying new wheels.

You are not going to see any real benifits or perfromance increase within those budgets and Shimano really do rule the roost in those prices ranges, bar Novatec wheels if you can get them.

IMHO you are better off spending the money else where.

Also HED, ZIPP, SRAM are all the same company using all the same products and are made by Novatec yet at massive markup. Also unless HED are supplying actual data to cover thier statement I would take it with a HUGE pinch of salt.
 

Phil

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#15
Frode, out of your list I'd probably go with the Fulcrums; the whole series (7 to 0) have a really good reputation for durability with heavier riders.

I'd rule out the Mavics on serviceability grounds; they are one of the send-wheel-to-factory-for-2-months-just-to-replace-a-spoke brands. (At least, on some models, anyway).

I always recommend getting custom builds; you can fine-tune the spoke count, hub, rim etc to your needs and, most importantly in my eyes, you can take them in to any LBS for a quick fix if anything goes wrong. Bicycle Wheel Warehouse has some good cheap options, or you can try your local LBS.

Anyway, just a few extra thoughts...
 

Phil

Maximum Pace
#16
Also unless HED are supplying actual data to cover thier statement I would take it with a HUGE pinch of salt.
They do. Just go to their site and click on "Aero data" for the wheel models. They are famously one of two main makers to provide in depth wind tunnel data (the other being ZIPP).

Now, I'd never touch a HED because just from reading these forums they seem to have terrible durability issues, but that's a different issue.
 

scandiman

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Aug 12, 2010
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#17
Guys,

really for the budgets you guys are looking at it really does seem that you are buying new wheels for the sake of buying new wheels.
I agree. But I am excused since I only have one wheelset (and of course will not get a third after getting a second)

Which reminds that I should move most of my spending account funds to a untouchable saving account. Now.
 

AlanW

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Jan 30, 2007
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#18
I agree. But I am excused since I only have one wheelset (and of course will not get a third after getting a second)
All the more reason to save up for a bit longer! Those Ultegras you have are towards the top end for aluminium, clincher wheels. The wheels you listed seem largely equivalent to the Ultegras in terms of weight, general quality etc. As per James's post, I don't think you'll get a noticable boost in speed/stiffness/feel/aerodynamics from any of them.
 

kiwisimon

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Dec 14, 2006
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#19
They definitely feel smooth and I enjoy climbing with them, but as for aerodynamics and reactivity I am just not convinced.

/Frode
To get the aero and reactive--->( not really sure what that means, do you mean stiffer?) upgrade, I would imagine you'll need to pony up some more.
 

Desune

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May 7, 2008
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#20
All the more reason to save up for a bit longer! Those Ultegras you have are towards the top end for aluminium, clincher wheels. The wheels you listed seem largely equivalent to the Ultegras in terms of weight, general quality etc. As per James's post, I don't think you'll get a noticable boost in speed/stiffness/feel/aerodynamics from any of them.
This is what I was thinking as well. Going from a 24mm to 30mm rim height may not make a Y50,000 difference. You might have to pony up for at least a 50mm rim to really feel it.

Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL or SRAM S60 wheelsets are going for around $1000 USD (less than Y80,000 these days) brand new on eBay...if you don't mind the risk and can find a seller that will ship to Japan.