New Dura Ace 9000 Group - 11 Speed

m o b

Speeding Up
Jun 22, 2008
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cyclitis.wordpress.com
#1
Not sure if this has been posted somewhere at the TCC forum previously, but Sankei Shinbun has posted first pictures of the new Dura Ace 9000 groupset with 11 speed setup.

http://sankei.jp.msn.com/sports/news/120421/oth12042123210025-n1.htm

I tried to summarize the information from various blogs and sites on Cyclyng:

http://cyclitis.wordpress.com/2012/04/25/11-dura-ace-7900-entdeckt/

I am pretty sure that Shimano developed again a very reliable, high quality group set that will set an industry standard. This happened every time since .... 600 AX which was a sales disaster in the Eighties.

However in terms of design, I am not that sure. I always had my problems with the design of the Dura Ace crank set and I hated to see that design replacing the previous Ultegra and 105 designs in the group updates.

For me, Shimano is going a similar road like Toyota. Reasonable prices, excellent quality and technology, but nothing you would buy as a consequence of a sudden outburst of passion and lust.:angel:
 

FarEast

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May 25, 2009
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#3
Not sure if this has been posted somewhere at the TCC forum previously, but Sankei Shinbun has posted first pictures of the new Dura Ace 9000 groupset with 11 speed setup.:
LOL actually If you follow me on Facebook and even here I've had photos up for a few weeks now ;)

About 2 months back I had photos up of the unbranded DA setup being tested by a friend of mine who happens to ride for some small British team called Team Sky.
 

TOM

Maximum Pace
#4
For me, Shimano is going a similar road like Toyota. Reasonable prices, excellent quality and technology, but nothing you would buy as a consequence of a sudden outburst of passion and lust.:angel:
I would! I really like the sharp looks. Like the previous and existing Dura-Ace (and Ultegra or 105) groupsets, this new one oozes reliability and is both functional and aesthetically pleasing. I find that Shimano has a very clever marketing team and excellent industrial designers (the same holds true for their fishing gear and tackle!). Very much tempted by lust but the 11-speed Ultegra is probably going to be just fine for me by the time I decide to get a new groupset.
 

joewein

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#5
For me, Shimano is going a similar road like Toyota. Reasonable prices, excellent quality and technology, but nothing you would buy as a consequence of a sudden outburst of passion and lust.:angel:
As an engineer I can feel passion for technology. That's how I came to drive a Prius. I feel something similar about Di2, though not 11-speed cassettes.
 

FarEast

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#7
Ok guys - it was mentioned about the big gap on the crank spider. Well rumor has it (from a very good source) is that Shimano is looking in to releasing a power meter for thier range of new systems - this will either be in house or with a 3rd party.
 

FarEast

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#10
They are - only the new 11 speed is currently analogue.

In regards to the tall hangerthis is a dual purpose model for Cyclocross - last year they released a Ultegra CX range but as any dirty rider will tell you the last thing you want is your cables running down the down tube, so they have designed the new arm to be top and bottom pull compatible like the XT and XTR range of front derailiuers.

Also there are other images of the standard "Road" version of the new Dura Ace 9000 range which do not have the elongated arm.

One thing I am disapointed with is the fact the derailiuer cage is still alloy - why on earth can't they give us a carbon cage!
 

kiwisimon

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Dec 14, 2006
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#11
this looks really cool but having DURA ACE plastered everywhere is so eck. Subtle it down so that those who really care will really know and the rest can get over it. It's like if you have to advertise your great then you really aren't. Let the quality of the product sell itself. Stop whoring your image Shimano you're a big player now, have been for a few years. Is this stuff made in Japan?

Rant over.
 

FarEast

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#12
Kiwisimon - actually the Shimano and Dura Ace logo's are not so prominent in natural light, very similar to the current range although these images really show off the bling of the silver and brushed metal the logo's are done very nicely.
 
Sep 2, 2009
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#13
Yeah, on the Dura Ace stuff, the word 'Shimano' is not to be seen.

There are brand logos on every single part of your bike, I would wager, so it is not exactly as if Shimano are the only ones doing it.
 

Yamabushi

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Jun 1, 2010
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#14
this looks really cool but having DURA ACE plastered everywhere is so eck. Subtle it down so that those who really care will really know and the rest can get over it. It's like if you have to advertise your great then you really aren't. Let the quality of the product sell itself. Stop whoring your image Shimano you're a big player now, have been for a few years. Is this stuff made in Japan?

Rant over.
Kiwisimon - actually the Shimano and Dura Ace logo's are not so prominent in natural light, very similar to the current range although these images really show off the bling of the silver and brushed metal the logo's are done very nicely.
Yeah, on the Dura Ace stuff, the word 'Shimano' is not to be seen.

There are brand logos on every single part of your bike, I would wager, so it is not exactly as if Shimano are the only ones doing it.
I agree with James and Owen, Shimano is tasteful, SRAM on the other hand...
 

m o b

Speeding Up
Jun 22, 2008
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cyclitis.wordpress.com
#15
Powermeter

Most likely Shimano will develop on their own or in cooperation with an external supplier a crank-type powermeter (as opposed to hub-type or pedal-type) for the new dura Ace group. This is following the trend of digitalisation of cycling, first shifting, next power measurement, and in the future perhaps ABS, steering control, braking etc.

SRAM acquired the powermeter company QUARQ in March 2011 and now they are offering a range of products:

http://www.sram.com/sram/road/component/power-meters

Campagnolo still sleeping, the typical cycling innovation pattern recently.

Personally I believe that measuring power at the crank is not the optimal solution. Garmin acquired Metrigear to develop a pedal-based powermeter called Garmin Vector:

http://sites.garmin.com/vector/#power

From an enginnering point of view this system would provide more precise data as it is directly measuring the force put on the pedal and not the torsion of the crank (one more point of tolerances and deviations).

However, the development ran into technical problems and the planned sales start in summer 2012 has been postponed indefinitely. We will see if this will ever become a product for Garmin or not. Sooner or later it will, by Garmin or by others.

A good case in point is the Mavic Mektronic, perhaps not even the first electric shifting on racing bikes, that was sold from 1999 to 2004 before finally Shimano manged to develop and market a succesful product.

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Front Derailleur

The long lever looks odd, definitely. The only reason I can imagine is, that one needs less force to move the derailleur with a longer lever - but more distance. So Shimano would need a redesign of the brake/shift levers that with every indexed move a longer distance of cable is pulled or released. The handle bar levers would then not be compatible with other Shimano groups, however the same would be probably true for the 11 gear rear derailleur as well.

The Ultegra CX70 front derailleur for cyclocross looks different:

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This one has indeed both options top pull and down pull, which makes a lot of sense for cyclo cross. I am not sure if racing bikes would need top pull front derailleur, given the fact that this would require redesign of the frames as welll so that the shifting cable runs along the top tube. And rather hard to see the connection between the long lever and top pull option here.

Design

Probably one could argue for years about this and it would justify many extra threads. I personally find the Dura Ace cranks ugly since 7800 series. They used to be plain and beautiful until FC-7700:

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proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fvelobase.com%2FCompImages%2FCrankset%2F19441524-92A6-45FC-AD92-24CDB97C2477.jpeg&hash=ea86b305fdd3f6fcbb67480f36df8c01


Shimano made also other beautiful cranks notably the "Golden Arrow" in the Eighties:

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Not to mention many other makers such as Sakae Ringyo (SR)

proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fvelobase.com%2FCompImages%2FCrankset%2FED2B6476-6BAF-4B8F-9FEB-3E8E7CA49EEF.jpeg&hash=7f5447fb8732760819209bed0fcf128c


or Ofmega Mistral

proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fvelobase.com%2FCompImages%2FCrankset%2FF9232C75-6CEB-426E-BD39-3AB672FB4B3B.jpeg&hash=2d10f26e2e80a5c721cee7df6fc6dc3a


Sorry, as you can see in some ways I am really old fashion and I don't want to hijack this thread for a crank discussion.

Still I believe that there are modern cranks out in the (after) market which are easily better looking than Dura Ace. And they are light, reliable, cost-competitive and performing as well. I did some research about compact ranks in 2009 for your info:

http://positivo-espresso.blogspot.de/2009/01/everything-you-always-wanted-to-know.html

A lot of these cranks IMHO are looking better than this one.

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kpykc

Speeding Up
Jun 13, 2007
804
4
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Tokyo
#16
I think you're right about the front derailleur, Mob. But whatever the reason - it looks weird to me, I would need a very good reason to consider switching to this aberration.

Old cranks are definitely nice - one of the reasons I was considering switching to Compagnolo, but not for a fast bike. For racing bikes - it's all about speed lines, plastic, lazers and CG :cool: Shimano is doing a good job there.
 
Sep 2, 2009
5
0
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#18
Is there a reason why the SRM Dura-Ace stuff uses those style crank arms and not the newest looking ones?
 

AlanW

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Jan 30, 2007
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#19
Some very early ride impressions here

http://www.roadbikeaction.com/Related-Stories/content/67/5371/First-Look-2013-Shimano-Dura-Ace.html

Is there a reason why the SRM Dura-Ace stuff uses those style crank arms and not the newest looking ones?
I read that the 7900/7950 series crank does not have enough material in the places needed to attach the SRM power meter, once the machining has taken place. Also, SRM would have to reconfigure their CNC milling machine if the crank were changed.
 

Sikochi

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Sep 13, 2010
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Kochi
#20
Some very early ride impressions here
I read that the 7900/7950 series crank does not have enough material in the places needed to attach the SRM power meter, once the machining has taken place. Also, SRM would have to reconfigure their CNC milling machine if the crank were changed.
The question is, why have Shimano designed their top of the range crank in a way that is incompatible with what is still the gold standard powermeter???

Powermeter
Most likely Shimano will develop on their own or in cooperation with an external supplier a crank-type powermeter (as opposed to hub-type or pedal-type) for the new dura Ace group. This is following the trend of digitalisation of cycling, first shifting, next power measurement, and in the future perhaps ABS, steering control, braking etc.
The rumour is it will be Bottom Bracket based. And in view of the above, no doubt it is ready to go, and they are just sitting on it. Btw, the Polar/Look pedals are out in the market.