LSD (and intervals)

jdd

Maximum Pace
Hardest Crash
Jul 26, 2008
2,512
639
133
Kanazawa
#1
I've been reading on this, and have seen that interval training has been accepted over LSD as a means of improvement. However, in discussing one LSD program wikipedia describes these running rules from the Honolulu Marathon Clinic:

The rules:
• No fewer than three runs per week
• No more than five runs per week
• No less than one hour per run
• No farther than 15 miles [24km] on any run
• One run per week lasting two hours or more (after month 5)

I'm wondering how to translate this into riding. The first two would seem simple--ride 3-5 times a week. But since I'm not a runner, how do the last three change (or not) on a bike?

When cycling, what would correspond to no less than an hour of running, two or more hours of running, and no farther than 24km? Are there any rider-runners that could help with this?

Ballpark equivalencies would be good enough, thanks.
 

kpykc

Speeding Up
Jun 13, 2007
804
4
38
38
Tokyo
#2
I am not a runner myself, so don't take my suggestion seriously.
But I would try to compare the ultimate endurance tests (if cycling endurance is your goal) in running and cycling and see how distances relate.

Compare things like marathon (42km in ~2.5 - 3 hours) and, say, one of the longest cycling pro-race distance Milano-SanRemo (300 km in ~6.5 - 7 hours).

From this you can get

• No less than 2 hours per ride
• No farther than 170 km on any ride
• One ride per week lasting 4.5 hours or more

Ok, maybe, longest individual time trial distance on a bike would compare better (like Ironman bike ride - 180 km in 4.5 - 5 hours). From this you would get -

• No less than 1.5 hours per ride
• No farther than 102 km on any ride
• One ride per week lasting 3 hours or more
 

Sikochi

Maximum Pace
Sep 13, 2010
1,147
45
68
Kochi
#3
Jdd, if I have more time I`ll write a fuller answer but when comparing running to cycling, there is one basic difference you have to remember, which is that running is an impact sport and cycling is a non-impact sport. Therefore, when running you have to balance the amount of running you would like to do against the harm it causes to the joints and the likelyhood (is that an i or a y?) of injury. With cycling, the main limiter is the recovery time you need.
 

jdd

Maximum Pace
Hardest Crash
Jul 26, 2008
2,512
639
133
Kanazawa
#4
...when comparing running to cycling, there is one basic difference you have to remember, which is that running is an impact sport and cycling is a non-impact sport. ...
Uh, except when you crash...! :rolleyes: (Yes, impact is one thing this older cycling swimmer would like to avoid.)

There's no need to spend time writing a lot, as I said, ballpark/rough is the comparison I was hoping for. Hills and wind probably affect runners differently, again spoken as a non-runner.

Those marathon 'rules' are supposedly for someone prepping to do a full marathon, and that's what I think Serguei based his reply on--what would the comparable bike training regimen be for someone preparing for the cyclist's equivalent of a marathon (and to my eyes his answer seems good, the ironman version especially).
 

Izo

Warming-Up
Oct 20, 2010
44
0
0
Wakoshi
#5
Many sources claim a running distance equates to four times cycling distance. So a 40k cycle is equivalent to a 10k run. It might just be me but I find the run much tougher than the ride at that ratio and certainly of the four full marathons I've run the training and effort required was far far more than cycling 210k (52k run??) around Sado.

• No less than one hour per run - 4 hour ride
• No farther than 15 miles [24km] on any run - 96k
• One run per week lasting two hours or more (after month 5) - 8 hours

The problem here is you'd be cycling very very slowly to do under 96k in 8 hours!
 

FarEast

Maximum Pace
May 25, 2009
5,528
538
193
Yokohama
#6
Running and riding are two seperate sports and a lot of the trainining for serious riders or runners can not be transfered across.

If you want to know the in and outs of training then I suggest "The Cyclist Training Bible." It will tell you EVERYTHING you need to know.
 

Sikochi

Maximum Pace
Sep 13, 2010
1,147
45
68
Kochi
#7
Those marathon 'rules' are supposedly for someone prepping to do a full marathon, and that's what I think Serguei based his reply on--what would the comparable bike training regimen be for someone preparing for the cyclist's equivalent of a marathon (and to my eyes his answer seems good, the ironman version especially).
Yes, Serguei did well, but you have to factor in that cyclists are basically doing marathons day in, day out. There is no equivalent to the Tour de France for athletes. As for the ironman, don`t forget that they are training to ride 112 miles after having swum 2.4 miles and before running a marathon so the effort they are expending is entirely different as they are operating well below their capacity on the bike so that they can complete the run in a decent time.
Izo is correct. The rule for triathlon training is 1 K on the bike = 1/4 K running = 100 m swimming. See below. Like I mentioned, the 24K rule is probably more to avoid impact stress, so I would discount that.
http://www.slowtwitch.com/Training/General_Physiology/Aerobic_points_system_15.html

The trouble with the schedule you listed, is it says nothing as regards the speed/intensity of those runs - all the same; one day hard, next easy; all L2 etc.? The link you listed is for LSD but says Long Slow Distance. It is important to remember that it should be Long Steady Distance, not slow. To get stronger, you need to force stresses on the body so that when it recovers/repairs it builds itself stronger and Long Slow Distance won`t get you very far, as once the muscles/ligaments etc. have adjusted to the time riding, there is no stress on the body forcing it to adapt, which is why if you ride slowly for a long time, you will just get better at riding slowly. I find many of the advocates for Long slow distance aren`t exercising as slowly as they claim.

But Long Steady Distance is effective, however, it requires a lot of training time (4 hour rides) and either that or intervals work fine. Simple question, is what are you training for? If you want, I can write out an outline plan for you.
 

Sikochi

Maximum Pace
Sep 13, 2010
1,147
45
68
Kochi
#8
Running and riding are two seperate sports and a lot of the trainining for serious riders or runners can not be transfered across.
Agree and disagree. For the pros, then races are run entirely different so training has to reflect that. But, they are both aerobic endurance sports and you can carry over a lot of the ideas, just adapting them as required. I would speculate that running probably has more scientific research behind it than cycling and for instance, by using pace (time per kilo) runners have been using power meters for years.

As for whether running fitness and cycling fitness correlate, then in general, the answer seems to be `limited`.