Looking for some easy, fast hills.

yukun

Speeding Up
Feb 18, 2011
55
0
26
Setagaya Ward, Sangenjaya
#1
Hoping to get some of my soccer schoolmates interested in cycling.

Do you have any recommendations for some hills with fast descends just to get a feel for the speed. Preferably with no killer climbs and near the river banks of tamagawa(low saddle time)?

Thanks!!!
 

GSAstuto

Maximum Pace
Oct 11, 2009
945
242
103
tokyo
www.roadfixie.com
#4
I'd like that kind of riding. All gain and no pain! Sorta 'look, Ma, no hands' kind of riding. I'd suggest a BMW sag wagon complete with soigneur to carry your asses up the hills, espresso on the way, then unpack at the top for a breezy coasting ride to the bottom. Then repeat. On the way back you can bench race how amazing it was to feel the wind in your face and the tough requirements of 'technical braking' leading to relatively tired forearm muscles. Saddletime should be relatively low - no more than 10min max, I suspect. The rest of the time would be in the cushy leatherette of the sag wagon.
 

Gunjira

Maximum Pace
Oct 2, 2009
1,002
176
83
Tokyo
#5
Descending without climbing? Sign me up!
My suggestion is hiding the bike in the bushes first and then try to hitchhike to Fuji-San fifth station.

Honestly though, take the ferry to Izu-Oshima, take the bus up to the volcano and voila - a 15min screaming descent
 

GSAstuto

Maximum Pace
Oct 11, 2009
945
242
103
tokyo
www.roadfixie.com
#8
Or perhaps a new Norikura DH event? I'd like to see you and HF Mike dice it out. If it's one thing Mike does not do 'Half Fast' , it's descending. And I saw you pulling several 'Simoncelli' like drifts around the corners!
 

bird

Speeding Up
Nov 30, 2010
322
18
38
Kawasaki
#10
My suggestion is hiding the bike in the bushes first and then try to hitchhike to Fuji-San fifth station.
This will definitely provide enough altitude to enjoy the effect of thin air:)
To get "a feel for the speed", descending from 1500m+ altitude (preferably 2000m+) is a whole different world compared to a mere 1000-1200m toge.
An eye-opener really.
 

joewein

Maximum Pace
Oct 25, 2011
2,424
862
133
Setagaya, Tokyo
joewein.net
#13
Hoping to get some of my soccer schoolmates interested in cycling.
I question the strategy of tempting them with downhill joy rides when they're not used to paying for them upfront by climbing. I recently learnt to enjoy long downhills after venturing up higher into the mountains, but they weren't what got me into cycling. I think people are more impressed by realizing how far and how fast they can go on a proper bike on a nice flat road, especially drafting behind each other in a group.

Once their appetite is whetted, take them to some moderate hills. For a beginner it takes more skill to get the gearing and cadence right on a hill, which can be frustrating. It's also mentally more challenging to make slow progress while climbing.

Recently I quite enjoyed the climb and downhill on R41 from R18 towards Minamitama station (there is a golf course on that hill, green spot on the map). I think it was about 2 km climbing of no more than 5% and then a similar distance downhill without traffic lights. There are many hills in the Tama area, but often you have to stop for lights.
 

jdd

Maximum Pace
Hardest Crash
Jul 26, 2008
2,497
628
133
Kanazawa
#15
I've done a couple nice downhills in Hawaii. One on Maui, the other on the big isle from Volcano down to the lava flows. Both were 'sagged'. Someday I'd like to do Saddle Rd and the visitor's center, and maybe even mtn bike on up Kilauea.
 

Deej

Maximum Pace
Oct 13, 2007
1,013
129
83
Setagaya
#16
Do you have any recommendations for some hills with fast descends just to get a feel for the speed. Preferably with no killer climbs and near the river banks of tamagawa(low saddle time)?
yukun, here's a loop in the Tama hills that offers a nice descent without a gut-busting climb. Well, it gets a bit steep at the top, but not too bad.

This also makes a great training loop and offers some nice little climbs for intervals.

Hope you can make some cycling converts!

Deej
 

joewein

Maximum Pace
Oct 25, 2011
2,424
862
133
Setagaya, Tokyo
joewein.net
#17
This will definitely provide enough altitude to enjoy the effect of thin air:)
To get "a feel for the speed", descending from 1500m+ altitude (preferably 2000m+) is a whole different world compared to a mere 1000-1200m toge.
An eye-opener really.
Here is some physics for you:

You lose about 1% of air pressure per 100 m of altitude (you lose half every 5500 m, it's a logarithmic scale). So at the Fuji Subaru line 5th station you have about 23% less air resistance, vs. about 10% less at Fujiyoshida near the bottom of the road, compared to Tokyo/sea level.

Air resistance force increases to the square of the speed, so expect to go about 11% faster at the top of the Fuji road than at an equally steep road near sea level, or about 5% faster near the bottom of the road.

The average grade of the road is a bit over 5%, not that extremely fast to start with. I was probably coasting at 30-35 km/h most of the time.

You'll really only gain a few km/h because of lower air pressure, maybe 5 at the most, depending on your position. The real benefit of a high mountain is not how thin the air is but how far you can coast :)
 

yukun

Speeding Up
Feb 18, 2011
55
0
26
Setagaya Ward, Sangenjaya
#18
I question the strategy of tempting them with downhill joy rides when they're not used to paying for them upfront by climbing. I recently learnt to enjoy long downhills after venturing up higher into the mountains, but they weren't what got me into cycling. I think people are more impressed by realizing how far and how fast they can go on a proper bike on a nice flat road, especially drafting behind each other in a group.

Once their appetite is whetted, take them to some moderate hills. For a beginner it takes more skill to get the gearing and cadence right on a hill, which can be frustrating. It's also mentally more challenging to make slow progress while climbing.

Recently I quite enjoyed the climb and downhill on R41 from R18 towards Minamitama station (there is a golf course on that hill, green spot on the map). I think it was about 2 km climbing of no more than 5% and then a similar distance downhill without traffic lights. There are many hills in the Tama area, but often you have to stop for lights.
Had thought about it too! Some of them do commute to school hence no strangers to the bicycle but cycling isn't really a sport to them, thought that a few hours on the tamagawa cycling road might bore them alittle(teenagers do need a thrill from time to time), just one or two fast descents over the holidays to get them interested before revealing the dedication required in cycling.
What you said is great advice, worth noting for the long term. Will definitely try out the route you mentioned thanks!!:).
 

yukun

Speeding Up
Feb 18, 2011
55
0
26
Setagaya Ward, Sangenjaya
#19
yukun, here's a loop in the Tama hills that offers a nice descent without a gut-busting climb. Well, it gets a bit steep at the top, but not too bad.

This also makes a great training loop and offers some nice little climbs for intervals.

Hope you can make some cycling converts!

Deej
Great! Thanks!! Will try it out during this weekend then. Me too, hopefully some new cycling converts...