jock rash thread

jdd

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Jul 26, 2008
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#1
It must be that time of summer or something, but this is the second occurrence this year. Re-visited my go-to skin doc (who thankfully has zero waiting time) and got the same cream as before. A Bayer product, called エンペシドクリーム 1%, which definitely helps, but which also comes in a small tube--it would be nice to get twice as much instead of barely enough at a whack. Active ingredient is listed as クロトリマゾール, which is an anti-fungal (抗真菌剤). I've also tried some OTC stuff from the usa, a neomycin cream, which doesn't seem to work as well.

I've tried adding オロナイン (oro-9) to my usual assos creme before rides (to keep from using up the above prescription stuff), and it seems like it may help some, but I'm worried overall that this problem is not going away. And I'd like to keep riding, rather than taking time off the bike for it to get better that way.

And I'm not doing some bazillion kilometers a day, maybe 75-120 minutes depending on time and conditions.

And I also swim some, which I'd think would be a positive/palliative for this.

I shower at least once a day, twice is at least as common as that.

And it persists.

Sooo, ideas/suggestions?
 
Jan 14, 2007
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Noda
japanichiban.com
#2
Could be a vitamin deficiency.
Wash your cycling shorts after each ride. Don't wear underwear as well as cycling shorts.
Talcum powder may help soak up the wet... apply it often. I picked up some medicated talcum powder last week in Aus.

I used to get the lumpy bumps in my tender parts...but not for years now.

Your Assos cream may be too old as well...
 

GSAstuto

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Oct 11, 2009
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#3
A) Get properly tested that you have 'Jock Itch' which is a fungal infection not unlike athlete's foot.

B) If so, then demand a proper amount of prescription to suit the maintenance you need. Most Japanese doctors will simply prescribe enough for 1 or 2 treatments then have you return again and again for ongoing 'diagnosis' - this is how they make money.

If you have any issues - PM me - I have a really great dermatologist locally who is savvy to cyclists' needs - mainly mine - but he's not Japanese and understands the need to have a plentiful prescription for active people.

Swimming does nothing to prevent /cure fungal infections contrary to popular belief. Some creams contain chlorine dioxide - but what's in a pool is different. And many pools use bromides whcih actually raise ammonia levels that fungals love to feed upon.

If you can get some Lotriderm (the combo version of what you have now) it may help more than simple Clotrimazole. Though - not likely to pass a UCI piss test as it has somewhat steroidal properties.

Natural remedies are hempseed oil, peppermint oils and tea tree oils. Internally try cutting out sugar, yeast, dairy, wheat, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol for awhile as they exacerbate and promote fungal type infections.

Bag Balm is another great 'topical calmative' - though unobtainium in Japan. The nearest analog is Oricone which you can buy at any local kusuri. It doesn't do anything for the fungal infection - however it's great for irritated and chaffed skin - especially the more sensitive regions.
 
May 22, 2007
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halffastcycling.com
#5
I get this too. I'm a poor-compliance patient. I put some cream on. It's fine for two days and then back the next. I know I should put it on every day for a week or so.

The stuff I get is Astat Cream スタットクリーム; 1% lanoconazole. Quick-acting, as I say. Stinks, though.

Assos chamois cream has menthol or somesuch in it. I would find that painful when inflamed, I think. Prefer Chamois Butt'r
 

FarEast

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May 25, 2009
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#6
I have a guy in the UK make up my chamois cream, he makes it for pro teams as well and it blows Assos cream out of the water! Full certified tomake this kind of stuff to boot as well.

He is able to modify the ingredients to suit all needs and medical requirements. Not only that but the price again blows Assos out of the water.

If anyone is interested PM and I can make the introductions.

Please note that the first thing he will tell you to do is consult a doctor! :D
 

FarEast

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#9
Also one other question.... how much chamois cream are you applying to the shorts?

In hot humid conditions the recommended amount is P ..... for plenty!

Will take a photo later of what I apply to the inside of my shorts as todays ride will require it.
 

FarEast

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May 25, 2009
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#10
Also one other question.... how much chamois cream are you applying to the shorts?

In hot humid conditions the recommended amount is P ..... for plenty!

Will take a photo later of what I apply to the inside of my shorts as todays ride will require it.

Or if you have watched the film "Over Coming" you'll know exactly how much needs to be applied for 100km plus rides.
 

GSAstuto

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#12
My standard ride creame is simple - Lanolin 'baby rash' creame you can get it at any Kusuri - it's in a yellow tube. If you want a tad extra antiseptic , then a few drops of tea tree oil.

For any fungal related rash, then its a few days of Lotriderm.

If its a saddle sore then I use a liberal application of antibiotic /septic cream that my Doc gave me - it also has a bit of topical steroid in it. Essentially it's hemmorhoid cream but works amazingly well for saddle sores as it shrinks the tissue and protects against further infection. Then I use one of the small donut bandaids to reduce the direct pressure on the sore.

Lastly - after you bathe or shower, use a little vinegar or diluted hydrogen peroxide to rinse the infected area. Soap and water doesn't really kill a fungal infection, but vinegar and / or hydrogen peroxide does. That along with your topical ointment will kill the little bastards quickly.
 

jdd

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#13
To be specific about some of the above comments:

I only mentioned using Assos cream so that you'd know what type I was using, and have been for a couple years. I've really only tried one other local brand, which was like thick vaseline--i.e., an ointment (and more likely to block pores) as opposed to a cream.

"Also one other question.... how much chamois cream are you applying to the shorts?"

And I use a lot, or at least what I think is a lot. Some on the shorts, yes, but I also, uh, decorate myself...

"…after you bathe or shower, use a little vinegar or diluted hydrogen peroxide to rinse the infected area. Soap and water doesn't really kill a fungal infection, but vinegar and / or hydrogen peroxide does."

This looked good and I started wondering about how much to dilute it and tried to see what google would say. Didn't get a clear answer on dilutions, but did get to wikipedia, which says: "It is a common misconception that hydrogen peroxide is a disinfectant or antiseptic for treating wounds. While it is an effective cleaning agent, hydrogen peroxide is not an effective agent for reducing bacterial infection of wounds. Further, hydrogen peroxide applied to wounds can impede healing and lead to scarring because it destroys newly formed skin cells." A bit negative, but that's talking about wounds, and it does say it's good at cleaning, and it doesn't say one way or the other if it's an antifungal. I'll give it a try. (And btw, two local names for H2O2 are apparently オキシフル and オキシドール.)

"Wash your cycling shorts after each ride." check
"Talcum powder may help soak up the wet... apply it often." I was using baby powder, and tho perhaps not enough, was wondering if that may instead have been a catalyst for the development of the rash/fungus.

"Internally try cutting out sugar, yeast, dairy, wheat, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol for awhile…"

I rarely add sugar to anything, also hardly ever eat bread (tho get wheat in pasta), no nicotine (not even second hand), and while I could maybe eliminate coffee, zeroing out alcohol would necessitate going to rehab. (and that's an understatement!)

"If you can get some Lotriderm…"
"For any fungal related rash, then its a few days of Lotriderm."
"The stuff I get is Astat Cream スタットクリーム; 1% lanoconazole."


I'll keep these in mind. The lotriderm looks a little expensive online, at least initially. A 10g tube of the stuff I mentioned in my initial post (エンペシドクリーム 1%, with クロトリマゾール), is costing just over a thousand yen.

Thanks all!
 

tamagojo

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Sep 25, 2009
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#14
I use iodine on general skin breaks. It too has some toxicity to new skin cells but not as much as hydrogen peroxide. I get the stuff in a small green bottle but I can't remember the name. In surgery they paint the surrounding area with this stuff before making the first incision.
 

FarEast

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#15
The trick is to rub it in so that it fully penetrates the chamois fabric and you get a nice even layer on top.

Normally I put the cream on about 1 hour before I ride so that it has time to penetrate the cloth.

The chamois cream I have made I ask not to be too thick as it penetrates faster.

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GSAstuto

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#17
@JDD - you are correct about Hydrogen Peroxide - is not for longer term antiseptic application - but does act as an aggressive bacterial cleaning agent and fungii are sensitive to it. (Meaning - it will kill many common fungii and bacteria on contact). Vinegar also has similar properties - though not quite as strong as Hydrogen Peroxide. I like it because its cheap and easy to use.

As a caution - DO NOT mix vinegar and H2O2 thinking you are creating some kind of super cleaner - as you are basically creating a new compund that is fairly caustic and not something you want to be splashing around your 'little ones'.

@ Tamagojo - the stuff they generally paint you with is likely a Betadine type of product (like DuraPrep).

Lotriderm is a bit pricey - but it's the mac daddy for most fungal infections. And not something you want to apply as a daily ritual - it has pretty strong steroids and is intended for acute infections - not chronic.
 

Ludwig

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Oct 9, 2008
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#18
I've never had any tissue issues and have never taken any special precautions, so I'm not well placed to comment from experience, but let me chime in with a few thoughts, picking up on what some of you have already mentioned.

- If it is a fungal infection, treat it properly. Some of the natural oils work as anti-fungal agents, but they are naturally more difficult to apply to broader areas. Why not simply apply an anti-fungal creme. This requires still prescription in Japan, but there are different tube sizes, and your doctor will not refuse a bigger size to you if you threaten not to come back otherwise. You need to apply it at least twice a day, and for at least two more weeks beyond the time you have no symptoms/complete healing. Otherwise the fungus is still living on and will come back quickly.

- While healing is in place, I would avoid unnecessary friction, which will disturb the healing process, and may also rub out the creme.

- Once properly healed, try out different saddle types. Maybe there is unnecessary friction which damages the skin and in turn invites fungus to settle.
 
Dec 31, 2009
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Matsumoto
#19
Hair Dryer

I always completly dry everything down there with a hair dryer first sign of irritation after showering. I used to have alot of problems, had to get it sorted at the doc, couldnt walk let alone ride a bike. The only thing that worked was the the hair dryer. You really have to get it completly dry. also make sure you sit in the cold shower to lower your body temperature because if you are still sweating when you are out of your shower, its never gonna get better. I also have boxer briefs that I wear when and friction has occurred. This keeps my legs from rubbing together during recovery. Bacteria thrives in the wet so get it dry. I remember one time I had it so bad, I sat in front of a fan for 2 hours after a shower, and it was gone. This was really bad too, I dont want to get to graphic, but I think anyone reading this far in the thread could expect this, but it stank really f-in bad. I cant do shammy cream myself. I tried it after it was probably too late for that sort of thing and it only seemed to make it worse. I also first thing wash my shorts and never wear the same shorts 2 day in a row if I can avoid it, and wait til they are completely dry.
Good Luck! I know what your going through!\

Might I suggest if you do have a bacteria infection, let yourself heal then get new shorts and burn your old ones!
Also after you have fun with the misses be sure to clean up ASAP, as that may be a potential problem.
 

Sikochi

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#20
Reminds me of the time I consulted a dermatologist about a recurrent, vivid rash in my nether regions. He prescribed all sorts of creams and lotions and pills and potions until we finally hit on the solution... lipstick remover. :cool:
Let`s see...you wrote the whole post you so could boast about the places you have had lipstick on your body ;)