Tech Japanese Made Frames

kiwisimon

Maximum Pace
Dec 14, 2006
2,681
494
103
Japan
#23
@kiwisimon yeah exactly. I think you are understanding what I am seeking.
So paying for an expert builder, whether or not its custom geometry is what I am after. The last thing you want is a beautiful new bike that rides like a pig because the builder doesn't really know what he is doing.
Or more likely some thing was lost in communication. If you're paying for a build you might as well get one that fits. I see two trips in your future, One to get on the same page as the builder and get fitted, Two, to pick up your bike and get fitted. Do you race in China?
 

130R

Cruising
May 31, 2018
13
1
13
44
#24
yeah I race although the racing scene is small and disorganised where i live. Around Shanghai there is better organisation but only flat parcours. where I am its mostly its hill climb events, which are pretty fun and there are plenty of mountains around. The culture shock for me is nothing is announced until a couple of weeks before the event, so its difficult to plan....

Or more likely some thing was lost in communication.
nah I understand the local situation quite well. There are plenty of factories that can produce decent quality items, for example effective welding but the builder would only do welding, no designing or anything else. he would be a professional welder and probably never rides bikes. The factory owner/manager also wouldn't be interested cycling, he would only be a manufacturer ie takes plans for what needs to be built, hires a welder and painter and makes a bike. In this way they don't have to understand it to build it. They will be given QA specs by the buyer (the bike brand) and they will work to that. by and large people here are still very pragmatic and only interested in making money with the least effort possible. They are only interested in doing the bare amount necessary in terms of quality, otherwise they will lose money (they have a very short term view). If you contrast that to Japan for example, there is a real history and culture or craftsmanship, continuous improvement and striving for perfection that is totally absent here.
 

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
345
132
63
41
#25
That doesn't sound like the type of shop where I'd want to buy a frame from if I were in the market. I'm confused how they think they can build a steel frame without having an interest in cycling. But I second kiwisimon's suggestion here, if you are getting a Gucci steel frame, you should get a custom one that is tailored to your body and riding preferences. (Do you want a sportier bike or a more comfortable one? Should it be nimble or stable? Do you want disc brakes or rim brakes? What about other optional features such as the number of bottle cages, mud guards and the like?)
 

xDOMx

Maximum Pace
Nov 21, 2014
519
394
93
Japan
#28

xDOMx

Maximum Pace
Nov 21, 2014
519
394
93
Japan
#29
Just to add something about Vlad (not sure it’s in this thread already).

If the Japanese craftsmanship element is important to you, he was trained by a former-NJS framebuilder (these framebuilders who make steel frames to exacting standards for Keirin racers here). Also, Vlad’s work is outstanding and he’s a solid guy.

Other options for Japanese steel include Level and Kalavinka (Kalavinka’s road frames are beautiful and, surprisingly, not crazy expensive).
 

Tychom

Cruising
Feb 8, 2013
11
6
13
Paris
#31
Here's a few manufacturers:

Kualis
Cherubim
Nagasawa
Samson
Makino
Level
Raizinworks
Sunrise Cycles
Kualis
Kinfolk (Made by builders such as Raizin)
Kalvinka
Panasonic
Rew10
Toyo
Ravanello
Extar Proton

Japanese outside of Japan:

Tomii
Yamaguchi

All the above, even those typically thought of as lugged steel track frame specialists will put out modern road bikes.
 
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