Indoor Time Trials

joewein

Maximum Pace
Oct 25, 2011
2,788
1,768
133
Setagaya, Tokyo
joewein.net
If rollers produce constant friction, power output only has to rise in proportion to speed. Wind resistance (force to overcome aerodynamic friction) however increases to the square of speed, which means power output rises to the third power of speed. 60 km/h on those rollers requires twice as much power as 30 km/h. On a real road it requires 8 times as much power (unless you're drafting).
 

Sikochi

Maximum Pace
Sep 13, 2010
1,185
79
68
Kochi
Yeah I know, That is why I was curious as to how fast he goes with wind.
I want to know how much wind resistance is worth...:)
Also, drag (CdA) varies according to the rider, so 2 riders could have the same speed on the rollers, but completely different speeds on the road, even with identical equipment.
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
2,455
2,315
133
Niigata
Yes riding rollers takes away all the things that slow you down: wind resistance, friction and gravity.

However, taking these things out of the equation makes it good for chartering your progress over the year. Perhaps in tandem with a TT time check on your favorite climb.

How your speed on rollers translates to speed on the road depends on how heavy you are and your position (aerodynamics) on the bike. The relative importance of these two things depend on the course (ie. weight for hills, aerodynamics for flats).

For the record two of my main goals this season are Tokyo~Itoigawa and the individual TT at Uchinada. I want to go at 35kmph for Tokyo~Itoigawa. And I'll have to average 45 kmph to win at Uchinada. Anyone have a disc wheel and aero helmet they want to lend me!?!!?

Andy

www.jyonnobitime.com/time
 

theBlob

Bokeh master
Sep 28, 2011
2,951
1,604
129
...
Cool thanks. Best of luck for both goals.
 

FarEast

Maximum Pace
May 25, 2009
5,528
538
193
Yokohama
Yes riding rollers takes away all the things that slow you down: wind resistance, friction and gravity.

However, taking these things out of the equation makes it good for chartering your progress over the year. Perhaps in tandem with a TT time check on your favorite climb.

How your speed on rollers translates to speed on the road depends on how heavy you are and your position (aerodynamics) on the bike. The relative importance of these two things depend on the course (ie. weight for hills, aerodynamics for flats).

For the record two of my main goals this season are Tokyo~Itoigawa and the individual TT at Uchinada. I want to go at 35kmph for Tokyo~Itoigawa. And I'll have to average 45 kmph to win at Uchinada. Anyone have a disc wheel and aero helmet they want to lend me!?!!?

Andy

www.jyonnobitime.com/time
Andy - The closest I have is a 88mm rear wheel and a 60mm front does that help?
 

Doug3

Maximum Pace
Jun 24, 2010
720
179
63
Setagaya
www.tokyocyclingcoach.com
For the record two of my main goals this season are Tokyo~Itoigawa and the individual TT at Uchinada. I want to go at 35kmph for Tokyo~Itoigawa. And I'll have to average 45 kmph to win at Uchinada. Anyone have a disc wheel and aero helmet they want to lend me!?!!?

Andy

www.jyonnobitime.com/time
Do you have any further info on the TT in Uchinada. I am hoping to enter some (relatively) flat TT's this year, instead of all the HC's.
 

jdd

Maximum Pace
Hardest Crash
Jul 26, 2008
2,762
1,039
133
Kanazawa
I don't have the flyer, but the other day at a LBS there was something on 6/24 at uchinada, a charity race IIRC.

The registration link was for sportsentry so you might be able to dig it up there.
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
2,455
2,315
133
Niigata
James,

Thanks for the offer! I would love to take you up on it. But I don’t want you to be without wheels either......

I was actually thinking of getting some aero disc covers which Sikochi brought my attention to:

http://www.wheelbuilder.com/store/aero-disc-covers.html

Doug,

Uchinada race details here:

http://www.fukaya-sangyo.co.jp/info/uchinada/2012/

Photos from last year here:

http://allsports.jp/event/00067339.html

And my blog about it:

http://www.jyonnobitime.com/time/2011/06/uchinada-ttt-and-rr-report.html

I’d been wanting to go for a few years and finally went last year. I really enjoyed it. It’s nice to be able to choose a couple of events to do. The team TT is great fun if you can get a few guys together. The RR too was great.

The course is pancake flat, fast, with a few technical corners.

Hope to see you there!

Andy

www.jyonnobitime.com/time
 

Edogawakikkoman

Maximum Pace
Jan 14, 2007
2,539
238
83
Noda
japanichiban.com
Also, unless you use a good fan, your body heats up more on a roller as the wind resistance isn't there to blow dry and cool your sweat. You can't evaporate your sweat as easily on the rollers. When your body has to figure out how to cool down somehow it adds another factor that you may only be able to simulate by riding in the heat of summer.
 

Doug3

Maximum Pace
Jun 24, 2010
720
179
63
Setagaya
www.tokyocyclingcoach.com
Doug,

Uchinada race details here:

http://www.fukaya-sangyo.co.jp/info/uchinada/2012/

Photos from last year here:

http://allsports.jp/event/00067339.html

And my blog about it:

http://www.jyonnobitime.com/time/2011/06/uchinada-ttt-and-rr-report.html

I’d been wanting to go for a few years and finally went last year. I really enjoyed it. It’s nice to be able to choose a couple of events to do. The team TT is great fun if you can get a few guys together. The RR too was great.

The course is pancake flat, fast, with a few technical corners.

Hope to see you there!

Andy

www.jyonnobitime.com/time
Thanks Andy!. Looks like a lot of fun. Didn't realize it was sooo far from Tokyo. Need to see what the family says about it.
 

Doug3

Maximum Pace
Jun 24, 2010
720
179
63
Setagaya
www.tokyocyclingcoach.com
Today’s 20min roller TT:

HR: 154AV / 161MAX
Speed: 54.0 kmph AV (55.1 kmph MAX)
Distance: 18.1km
Cadence: 111 AV (115 MAX)
Temp: Approx 17C
Gear: 50 × 13
Bike: LYNSKEY
Rollers: TACX Antares

OK, so I put this in the middle of my roller ride today. I had just changed out the back wheel, and my derailleur was slightly off on my 12T so I rode in the 13. I found it difficult to maintain a higher cadence than the 111ave, so I did not get my HR up to my LT(165). Will need to try this again with an 11T cog on the back.
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
2,455
2,315
133
Niigata
Doug,

That's a good start! I've done it on a 53x12 and a 50x11. It's said that 50x11 is actually a bigger gear than 53x12. I'd really like to try it on a 53x11.

How did you warm up? Just like for a race, I think it's important to raise your HR to the level (albeit briefly) that you aim to ride at in the TT.

Also, noticed you have a Lynskey. Which one? Mine is the R340. I absolutely love it!

As for the Uchinada RR, we stayed in central Kanazawa last year. Loads to do and see for the family before / after the race... And if you have a few days to spare, you can see the beautiful coastal scenery of Noto Hanto too....

Andy

www.jyonnobitime.com/time
 

Doug3

Maximum Pace
Jun 24, 2010
720
179
63
Setagaya
www.tokyocyclingcoach.com
Hi Andy,

I had a progressive warm-up for 20min without and jumps or efforts, and just kind of rolled into the TT. You can see the data in the attached image. For a race effort, I would try to get the HR up, like you suggest, to the race pace briefly during the warm-up.

I bought a HelixOS at the end of 2010 and have really loved the bike. I don't have a lot to compare it to however, as it is only my second bike, the first being my 1983 Guerciotti Columbus SLX.

Spoke with the family about the trip to Ishikawa and they were not too enthusiastic about it. Seems like too much time in the car they said. (~7hrs from Tokyo) They did however enjoy the trips to Niigata for Yahiko and Shiori HC's a couple of years ago, so those may be in the cards for later this year.

Doug
 

onm

Sep 2, 2009
5
0
0
Alright lads and lasses.

I reckon I am getting pretty good now, and want to join in with this utter -fest, so what do I need to get to do this?

Is this a Garmin related thing?

Give me the required kit list so I can join in the fun / suffering.

Nice one.
 

andywood

Maximum Pace
Apr 8, 2008
2,455
2,315
133
Niigata
Hi Doug,

The Helix must be amazing as it's the grade up from mine. I see Lynskey have brought out an even higher level frame, the r440:

http://www.lynskeyperformance.com/store/road/frames.html

Yes, 7 hours is a long time in the car. Just 2 hours for us. I don't think the Yahiko HC will take place this year (cancelled last year) but I'll let you know...

Owen,

You just need a set of rollers, a cycling computer and.... some good tunes!

Andy

www.jyonnobitime.com/time
 

Sikochi

Maximum Pace
Sep 13, 2010
1,185
79
68
Kochi
However, taking these things out of the equation makes it good for chartering your progress over the year. Perhaps in tandem with a TT time check on your favorite climb.
As Andy says, and if you use the same wheel each time, with the same tyre and set to the same tyre pressure then the figures will be even more reliable.
PS: Sorry Andy, still too time pressed to really evaluate the wheel covers. For aero gains, you could *possibly* save a few watts by tidying up your cabling on the front end.

I had a progressive warm-up for 20min without and jumps or efforts, and just kind of rolled into the TT. You can see the data in the attached image. For a race effort, I would try to get the HR up, like you suggest, to the race pace briefly during the warm-up.
Perfect example of cardiac drift! On a second note, such tests are a good way of experimenting with your warm-up routine.