How to win at Uchinada?

andywood

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#1
How to win at Uchinada?

My next race is Uchinada in two weeks time.

http://www.fukaya-sangyo.co.jp/info/uchinada.html

Unfortunately I missed the deadline for the individual TT. However, four of us will enter the team TT , so I'm really looking forward to that.

We'll also race the Champion Road Race. The course at Uchinada is flat and technical and notorious for crashes. The race (for all categories) usually ends in a bunch sprint. I don't really want to get involved in a sprint but would love to set up a break away.

The problem is the speed. Last year's 66.5 km course was covered in 1h 35mins. That's an average speed of 42 kmph! Difficult to break away solo or even in a small group.

Numbers are on our side though with 4 of us and a few more allies in the group. We need to make a plan to shake the race up, so one of us Niigata boys can cross the line first.

So, “How to win at Uchinada?”

Ideas please!

Andy

www.jyonnobitime.com/time
 

jdd

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#2
No race strategy ideas, but how about if, since I'm local, I buy the beer if you win?

;)

I think there are a couple riders from my school that will be competing, I'm not sure how to reward you and them both...?
 

jdd

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#3
And, to add:

This is way beyond me, as the kind of rider that I am. But if you need some local support, please PM me.

Not only the couple riders from my school (who go to Tokyo and other places to compete--not sure how well they do), but there are a couple clubs in town (associated with shops) that I'm sure will be there.
 

FarEast

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#4
Andy.... best tactic is to merge with another team. get an 8 man rotation going to completely break away.... if you guys can launch out of a technical corner intact and then each put in a 50km/h sprint in a pace line you'll get a large enough break to stay ahead and enough riders to recover while at the back. Then it will all come down to 2x4 man teams trying to lead out for the final sprint.

Try and get far enough ahead to utilize the "out of sight out of mind" mindset in the peloton. This will work especially well if you work with another strong team as the others will be either less inclined to chase you and also less experience to organize the peloton to chase.
 

Gunjira

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#5
Andy, would love to ride that one with you. I remember riding through that course on my way to Uchinada velodrome, thinking "this would be great for a crit race". Good luck.

One variation for the Machin tactic of combined escape. Leave one or more loyal riders at the top of the bunch, when you launch. This will give you more meters gap and will act as a discouragement to chase until somebody sees through the trick.
 

FarEast

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#6
Gunjira, that’s what they did to me last year at Hitachi Naka. Only really works though if your riders know who the main contenders are so they can box them in and slow the pace to allow the riders to escape.

Another tactic is for 3 of you to just attack over and over again and force the pace up and for the other teams or contenders to work on bringing you back in.

You can either do it solo or in pairs just keep doing it, your main contender sits in the pack and conserves energy then when he is ready he then launches for a solo escape or with the assistance of other riders to get the launch out and the assist then slow the pace. If other riders then jump on this make sure you work them.... keep the pace high as the peloton is more likely to work on bringing a group back than just one or two riders.

The good thing about this is if you do manage a break away and no one is interested in catching you can then just TT in to the finish.

When you are setting up for the final sprint 3 of you dummy off and launch and hope the peloton follows you then just sit up and enjoy the look on their faces, while this is going on your main rider goes off the opposite side and hopefully has nobody on his wheel.

Finally there is the Instant breakaway straight from the start 60km TT with either just the 4 of you or another team that you have sat down and worked this out with. It totally catches the peloton by surprise and also if you are lucky they will collectively think that over the 60km they will bring you back in.

Just make sure your main rider does bugger all work so that if the peloton does catch or if you make it to the finish he has the power left in the tank to win it or totally escape from the Peloton, this is brilliant as normally the peloton won't count the riders that broke away. If your rider can time the secondary attack right he can get away and out of sight before the peloton real you in and thus not realize there is one man still away.
 

Sikochi

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#7
Gunjira, that’s what they did to me last year at Hitachi Naka. Only really works though if your riders know who the main contenders are so they can box them in and slow the pace to allow the riders to escape.
This is what I was going to suggest, especially if you can get an 8-man combined team together: just set up a rolling pace line and at a tight technical section where the road is narrow and difficult to pass, the 7th man lets a gap grow between him and the front six and by the time the peloton realise what is happening and are able to organise a chase, you are away and clear (hopefully). Like FarEast said, it leaves two to act as box-ins. Cheating, and of course dangerous method so not practical, is for the 7th man to instigate a crash!:angel:

If the ride is notorious for crashes, then keep yourselves together on one side of the road and if you see a bad crash occurring, just launch and hope all the other teams are too much in chaos to organise a chase.

If you do have a main contender, then I agree with what FarEast says, but try not to make it so obvious that he is the main contender i.e. he still does pulls, otherwise the other teams will suss your ruse and it will fall flat. Or of course, the classic double bluff - have a dummy main contender in addition to the main contender, but that will be easier to pull off with a 8-man team rather than 4-man.

PS: Well done on Tsugaike, just curious (not meant as a critical comment) on the long warm-up when you weren`t planning on going hard straight from the gun?
 

andywood

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#8
JDD, support is always welcome. The races start from early in the morning. Not sure of the plan yet but it will probably just be an in and out job, leaving here early morning. Beers would be nice!

Gunnar, yes it would be nice to ride it together. There are a whole range of events including some track racing on the Saturday. You could make a nice weekend of it. Maybe next year?

James, some good ideas there. There should be 6 or 7 of us entering the road race. So as long as we have a common goal and talk it through before, I’m sure we can make a go of it. If you don’t mind, I think I’ll cut a paste the ideas and summarize them on my blog.

Sikochi, thanks for the ideas. As for Tsugaike, it was one of my worst times actually. A lack of racing means I’ve slipped down a few classes. For the last few years I’ve started Tsugaike in the front group with the pros so the pace is frantic (for as long as you can hang in there) giving you a springboard for a good time.

With regards to warm up, the quality is probably more important than the quantity. I usually go for about 45 mins depending on the race. The key is to raise the heart rate, albeit briefly, to where you want it in the race. Also, to time the warm up so you reach the start line with little time to spare and with a sweat on.

I didn’t go from the gun in the sense that I didn’t fall in to the trap of blowing up on the super steep start. However, my heart rate was right up there. I went flat out after that but as a controlled effort. This tactic has served me well in the past. However, looking at the photos, the top 4 guys were only a few metres in front of me in the early stages (difficult to tell at the time as we set off in groups) so if I’d have dug a little deeper to bridge to them, I could have had some people to share the pacing with.

My best time at Tsugaike was with ex-team mate Arthur as a two up TT. I held his wheel like my life depended on it……

Andy

www.jyonnobitime.com/time
 

FarEast

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#9
Mate...... you have rollers! USE THEM! why do you think the Pro's use stationary trainers to warm up on. Perfect for controlling you HR and cadence rather than having to adjust to the local terrain.

Yep go ahead and cut and paste.... but remember a lot of people read your blog Andy including the competition. I stopped posting my CP30 and CP60 data on my blog because the competition was reading it to see what my condition was like and then using counter tactics.
 

Sikochi

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#10
Yep go ahead and cut and paste.... but remember a lot of people read your blog Andy including the competition. I stopped posting my CP30 and CP60 data on my blog because the competition was reading it to see what my condition was like and then using counter tactics.
I was thinking the very same thing!

With regards to warm up, the quality is probably more important than the quantity. I usually go for about 45 mins depending on the race. The key is to raise the heart rate, albeit briefly, to where you want it in the race. Also, to time the warm up so you reach the start line with little time to spare and with a sweat on.
Thanks for the info. As said, just curious as I`m sure you have tested over time what works best for you, but for me, anything more than a 20 min warm-up is at best non-productive and at worst, counter-productive. Yesterday did a 54 min held threshold test and my warm-up to that point was about 19 min at tempo (once I`d crossed the main road) with a few spurts above on the slight inclines. Then, when I decided on what ride I was doing, just flicked the switch. I presume you are aware that HR info lags actual data, so if your aim in a warm-up is to get your HR up to a certain level, then by the time you reach that level you have already been operating at that point for as much as maybe 2-3 mins.

On this topic, I was reading an article from the New York Times highlighting a recent study done at the University of Calgary.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/15/when-warming-up-for-exercise-less-may-be-more/?ref=health
`In the study, researchers asked track cyclists to complete, on alternate days, their usual warm-up or a shorter, easier version. The volunteers, highly trained male racers, first followed their standard warm-up routine, beginning with 20 minutes of riding. The intensity of the pedaling increased until it reached about 95 percent of each rider’s maximal heart rate. That session was followed immediately by four hard intervals, or timed sprints, during which the rider would pedal as hard as he could for eight minutes.

The cyclists, as it turned out, were similarly tiring their muscles during their standard warm-up. When the researchers stimulated the riders’ leg muscles electrically, they found that the muscles contracted more forcefully before the riders’ usual warm-up than after it.

After a more leisurely 15-minute warm-up, though, with the highest intensity reaching only about 65 percent of each rider’s maximal heart rate and including only one interval, the riders’ legs were significantly less fatigued, the researchers found. Their muscles contracted with more force during electrical stimulation than after the standard warm-up, and the riders performed significantly better during a 30-second all-out pedaling effort on a specialized stationary bicycle.`
 

andywood

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#11
Cheers guys!

I cut and pasted the stuff without revealing too much like "We'll be attacking on the tight right hander on the 5th lap...."

James, with regards to rollers for warming up. Depends on the race really. At Tsugaike,the first kilometre is at over 12%. Really easy to control your warm up on a road like that. Much cooler than being on the rollers so easy to keep core temperature down too. And by warming up above the start line you can drop down just before the start line to slot into the front row...

For the pros in a town centre start area they want to be away from the crowds and with all their support at hand.

Personally I prefer to warm up on the road if there is a decent hill to do it on.

Either way you can do a quality warm up.

Sikochi,

Yes the warm up depends on the rider. It's all trial and error. I'm a really slow starter so if a race is going to be fast from the start I need to warm up well.

Murayama san aka "Mr. Hillclimb" does nothing but a few stretches and some strange jumps.

Looking at Tazaki san's warm up routine before winning at Fuji on Sunday, he did 50 mins
(15 mins at tempo, 2 minute pyramid intervals going through the gears at 300W, followed by 2 sprints)

http://blog.goo.ne.jp/alavasky/e/134c7d50ac1007aa39f24a53395f3d38

Different strokes for different folks!

Andy

www.jyonnobitime.com/time
 

jdd

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#12
I picked up the course map at a LBS, and was going to map it out on ridewithgps, but while google maps does have the resolution/detail in that area, ridewithgps does not--I gave up as it was a struggle trying to get it right in an area where they were claiming there were no real roads... :(

This is a new course for this year. Being from Niigata you probably are aware of this, but wind might be a factor. Between about 10 and 3 it can be pretty strong, maybe 5-8 m/s, on the odd day even more. Usually onshore then, but with Uchinada being right on the coast, and since the venue is a bit down and behind a big berm/rise between there and the coast, depending on the day's conditions, that might translate into a strong wind one way or another along the course (which kind of parallels the ocean)--either towards Kanazawa, or away from it.

John D.
 

andywood

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#13
Cheers John,

I was at the local bike shop tonight and he was telling me about the amazing Uchinada wind! Apparently it snakes the peleton out one way and bunches them all back together the other way. He was also telling me how difficult it is to escape and that it's a crash fest with 2km to go.

Looking forward to the race nontheless!

Andy

www.jyonnobitime.com/time
 

jdd

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#14
I'm not saying there will be wind, but it could be a factor.

The venue is just east of this school, one leg is only a few hundred meters SE: 西荒屋小学校

If you have the entry form page with the course map, that school is about where the " レ " is in the line above the map--内灘サイクルロードース... (turn the map about 60-70 degrees CCW to orient it right)

What time will you be riding?
 

andywood

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#15
Cheers John,

Uketsuke is 6:30. TTT at 7:30 and RR at 10ish. Hopefully warm up on the circuit from about 6.

I noticed on the entry info that there is a campsite by the course, so I may try to make a family weekend of it. How many 2 month old boys can say they've been camping!?

Any good onsens nearby?

Hopefully we can meet up next Sunday.

Andy

www.jyonnobitime.com/time
 

Sikochi

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#16
Yes the warm up depends on the rider. It's all trial and error. I'm a really slow starter so if a race is going to be fast from the start I need to warm up well.

Murayama san aka "Mr. Hillclimb" does nothing but a few stretches and some strange jumps.

Looking at Tazaki san's warm up routine before winning at Fuji on Sunday, he did 50 mins (15 mins at tempo, 2 minute pyramid intervals going through the gears at 300W, followed by 2 sprints)
I wish I could do a warm-up at 300W. :pray: My VO2 sessions (4 mins) have been around 320-325 so I could hold it for maybe 5 mins, 10 if threatened with one of the numeous snakes around here. Warm-ups are interesting, as most of what you read about them completely fails to mention what they are for, what they are trying to achieve and more importantly how the actual warm-up being done contributes towards that. And all tend to have no scientific research to back up the theories espoused. But some of what the pros do before TT`s is ridiculous. I just grew up where the hill started at the end of the road, so never had the luxury of a warm-up.

On a separate note, I think you mentioned this somewhere in the past, but I do think you would benefit greatly from a power meter if your budget could stretch that far, as I could reel off a list of why using HR as your main metric is floored and at best can only offer an indication/guide as to what is going on internally.
 

andywood

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#17
Sikochi,

Yes, 300W and he only has to push 53 kg up the hill. With almost half his weight again, maybe I need 450W just to keep up!

Would love a power meter but there always seems to be something else higher up on the wish list. Just bought a new frame, fork and saddle yesterday. The wife's going to kill me!

I'm well aware of the advantages of power over HR. However, you can also argue the merits of HR over power, especially in terms of it's cheapness and as a tool for measuring of your state of recovery / freshness.

Maybe we should save that argument for the pub!

Andy

www.jyonnobitime.com/time
 

Sikochi

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#18
Assuming 300W is his FTP, then that puts him on world-class international pro level, according to Andy Coggan`s power profiling chart (W/kg). It`s probably een above some of those in the pro peloton. Best I could do weight wise is 63 kg and that would require 350W to keep up. I think TEPCO have more chance of getting the nuclear situation under control than me reaching either of those figures. I`d be happy with 300W at 65 kg.

Actually, I wouldn`t aruge with you over the use of HR as a recovery indicator...freshness maybe ;)

Enjoy your new bike and good luck in the races next week.
 

jdd

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#19
Some rain last nite, and it's looking like it'll extend into the weekend. :(

But there are breaks between the showers, and right now would be fine. But:

proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi4.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy142%2Fjdd489%2F201106230700-00.jpg&hash=844224cfbbd547f114ed31c2b073fe2d

(gusty, too)

The two 7s paired in the middle are Kanazawa (lower) and Kahoku, the venue (upper). OTOH, it'd be a great time to go to Noto!

Andy, check your private messages in a few minutes, I'll send along my contact info.

**on edit, here's 09:00
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