Headset Question

Deej

Maximum Pace
Oct 13, 2007
1,018
149
83
Setagaya
#1
Hi everyone!

I love to ride my bike, but I am generally clueless when it comes to maintenance and mechanical stuff. I am currently building up a 2003/2004 Willier Izoard (bought via this site from Pedro!) and am not sure what type of headset I need. I would like a Chris King headset, because I have heard good things about the brand and like how they look. I was hoping some of you pros out there would have some answers just by eyeballing some photos. 1 1/8" integrated? Semi-integrated? Etc. I've done a fair amount of poking around online to see if I could figure it out myself, but I still am not confident about what type to use.

I'll supply more data if you need it!

Top of the head tube. About 44mm across the inner edges.

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Bottom of the head tube. About 44mm across.

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One more question. The paint on one of the cable guides (if that's what this is called) has flaked off, leaving some nastified aluminum underneath. Any good tips for cleaning that up? Since taking this photo, I've gently brushed off most of the corrosion.

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Thank you, and I hope to see you on the road soon! I've just started riding again recently after a few months off the bike and running on mountain trails instead. I'm already getting ideas about another Ome Temple Loop run in late March.

Deej
 

Forsbrook

Maximum Pace
Feb 13, 2008
406
70
48
Katsushika-ku
#2
Deej,

Sorry but I don't know what type it is but I'm sure someone on here will let you know.
I just wanted to say that what you've heard about Chris King is right....the best.
Install one on the Willer and you'll be passing it on to your grandkids.
It's the ultimate 'install and forgettaboutit' component out there.
 
Oct 15, 2010
669
10
38
#3
If someone can eyeball it, I will be impressed. I ended up buying three headsets before I could ride my Ti bike. When you see the steel template/measurement tool the shop uses to see what size/depth/angle etc. you'll see there isn't any standardization when it comes to headsets. Good luck with it. Looks like a nice bike.
 
Sep 2, 2009
5
0
0
#4
Manufacturers website / call the manufacturer / take it to a good bike shop, perhaps.

EDIT, not read it all, but have a look here for more possible assistance; http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=100021

More; the 2011 - 2013 complete bikes use the FSA Orbit CE headsets, which is this; http://www.wiggle.com/fsa-orbit-ce-black-1-18-integrated-aheadset/

This doesn't mean that this is the right one for your 2003 frame, but an integrated headset like this is likely to be the kind of thing you need, rather than a pressfit Chris King headset.

I will do some more investigating and see what I can come up with!
 

GSAstuto

Maximum Pace
Oct 11, 2009
945
242
103
tokyo
www.roadfixie.com
#5
Judging from the age of the frame -

IS2 Std headset -- 36x45 top and bottom.
Campy Std is 45x45 (and most newer frames)
If you have tapered headtube - then it would be different, but you don't.

CK headsets are great. SS bearings, precision retainers, bling, etc. But, you can also just use any ACB bearing set. If you want longevity, then either CK or CaneCreek (blk).

Y's Custom, Shinjuku has the 'loose' bearings. I have loads of the 36x45 ones and can order any of them. FSA, Tange, CC, CK, NEKO, etc.

BTW - Orbit CE is the same as the 'IS2' I mentioned above.
 

Deej

Maximum Pace
Oct 13, 2007
1,018
149
83
Setagaya
#6
Good luck with it. Looks like a nice bike.
Thanks for the feedback! I think I remember reading about your tribulations. Yeah, I'll probably end up taking the frame to the LBS just to be safe. Headsets are a lot trickier than I'd imagined.

I'm really curious to see how the frame rides. It's carbon-wrapped scandium, which I suppose was cutting-edge at the time. This is the Lampre team edition (Gerolsteiner rode the frame, too), so it was considered pretty hot stuff in its day. Today, not so sure...

Manufacturers website / call the manufacturer / take it to a good bike shop, perhaps.
Thanks Owen. I just thought I'd give it a shot here first. But yeah, obviously a trip to a bike shop will put an end to the guessing.

I appreciate the offer for more detective work! And cheers on the links -- I'll check them out.

Judging from the age of the frame
Thanks for all the info, Tim! Helpful stuff.

I think I'll just pop by the LBS this weekend to get a definitive answer.

I thought that perhaps a glance and some basic info might be enough for some of you to know what I need -- and maybe it is -- but it appears that headsets are full of mystery.

Deej
 

Pedro

Speeding Up
Mar 1, 2009
68
18
28
Kichijoji-Honcho
#8
Deej,

It will definitely be a Campy headset, and I think you'll find it's a semi integrated type, but like GS said go to a shop and use a headset tool to get an exact measurement.

Cheers,

Pete
 
Sep 2, 2009
5
0
0
#9
I took the liberty of emailing Wilier for you, and also messaged somebody on Weight-Weenies who appears to have the same frame asking for the headset specs.

If I get the info before you post back saying you have fixed it, I will post it up.

Cheers.
 
Sep 2, 2009
5
0
0
#11
Deej,

It will definitely be a Campy headset, and I think you'll find it's a semi integrated type, but like GS said go to a shop and use a headset tool to get an exact measurement.

Cheers,

Pete
What headset did you have in it when built up? :)
 

Deej

Maximum Pace
Oct 13, 2007
1,018
149
83
Setagaya
#12
I took the liberty of emailing Wilier for you, and also messaged somebody on Weight-Weenies who appears to have the same frame asking for the headset specs.
Wow, Owen, you rock. Thank you very much!

It will definitely be a Campy headset, and I think you'll find it's a semi integrated type, but like GS said go to a shop and use a headset tool to get an exact measurement.
Cheers, Pete. Will do. Just curious though: Do you mean Campy-only or Campy-compatible? I plugged in the measurement data on the Cane Creek website and it seems I can use one of their models, but, yeah, I'll get this confirmed at the bike shop.

Almost there with the bike, man. Just need a BB, saddle, stem and headset. That long 175mm head tube is going to feel grand after the 145mm jobbie I've got on Black Thunder!

EDIT:

Not sure if it helps, but Cane Creek has an online headset fit finder
Thanks, Joe. Yes, I've used this. And I think I may know what I need, but I still don't trust myself!
 

GSAstuto

Maximum Pace
Oct 11, 2009
945
242
103
tokyo
www.roadfixie.com
#14
Well, the <real> Gerolsteiner model is super rare. if you have one, good on you! As for the headset - it's going to be an Ahead Set 'standard' Campy (45x45) most likely. Or it could be a 36x45. Easiest is just to read the markings on the bearings and then match accordingly.
 

Deej

Maximum Pace
Oct 13, 2007
1,018
149
83
Setagaya
#15
Had a reply. It is a FSA Orbit integrated drop in headset. Hope that helps.
A man of action. I really appreciate that, Owen! What a crazy world headsets are (to me). I'm so ignorant of the basics, that even when armed with this information, I'm still a little fuzzy on what I need, as the Internet presents me with a broad range of FSA Orbit models to choose from. But I think I've got it sussed out. ;) Thanks again.

(And I'm still left wondering -- does this rule out Chris King? They make a lot of different models to accommodate different types of head tubes.)

The <real> Gerolsteiner model is super rare.
Cool. How do I know if mine is "real" or an imposter? It says Team Edition on the top tube. But maybe the "real" ones didn't advertise it so blatantly.

And thanks for the follow-up info! One question: you say "just read the markings on the bearings." I have no bearings in my frame. Or perhaps I am missing your meaning?

Thanks again, guys!

Deej
 

GSAstuto

Maximum Pace
Oct 11, 2009
945
242
103
tokyo
www.roadfixie.com
#16
When you took the fork out there should have been an upper and lower bearing. Your photo shows the headtube without them. 'Donutty Round Thingys' (For those not mechanially inclined). With very small alphabet and numbers on the side - that's you ll need to clean with some alcohol or nail polish remover to read. It may say something like -

41.8x8x45 .. That is secret code for mechanics and is generally broadcast on shortwave radio numbers stations.
 
Sep 2, 2009
5
0
0
#18
Following up with the guy in question, he tells me it is an FSA Orbit I

That is one of these; http://www.fullspeedahead.com/products/299/Orbit-I

Even if you do not go for one of these, it gives us the following information;

DESCRIPTION & MATERIALS
• 1-1/8",36°/ 45° ACB
• For 45mm OD headtube
• 1-1/8" steerer
• Alloy top cover
• Angular Contact Bearings (Blue seal)
• Stack Height 15.9+1=16.9mm
• Weight - 70.6 g
 

GSAstuto

Maximum Pace
Oct 11, 2009
945
242
103
tokyo
www.roadfixie.com
#19
Well, I'd measure first and buy second. Cause the Wilier in question is Italian made - and they <may> have originally equipped with Campy spec bearings. Which , are , in fact the exact same as Orbits - except a 45x45 chamfer rather than the 'standard' of the day - 36x45. I use 36x45 ACB's on all my Ti headtubes to broaden the compatibility - but recently, many headtubes are fitted with 45x45 ACB's.

Anyway - I have both bearings always sitting around, cause I use them both. So do most shops. And you can buy the base plate, retainer ring, inserts, shims , top cap all separate anyway. Mainly you want to match the fork you will install and the desired 'stack' for clearances and spacers.

Yeah, if you get a used fork it will likely have the base plate already hammered on - and that might be either a 45 degree or 36 degree version - so make sure it matches the bearing, too.

Following up with the guy in question, he tells me it is an FSA Orbit I

That is one of these; http://www.fullspeedahead.com/products/299/Orbit-I

Even if you do not go for one of these, it gives us the following information;

DESCRIPTION & MATERIALS
• 1-1/8",36°/ 45° ACB
• For 45mm OD headtube
• 1-1/8" steerer
• Alloy top cover
• Angular Contact Bearings (Blue seal)
• Stack Height 15.9+1=16.9mm
• Weight - 70.6 g
 
Sep 2, 2009
5
0
0
#20
This diagram of the FSA Orbit I headset should shed even more light on things.

Seems the top and bottom angles are both 45 degrees.

The 36 degree angle appears to be the angle at which the wedge fits the top bearing...

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