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FIT

ProRaceMechanic, correct and correct again. I have the saddle set back and have a tendency to sit back. It works fine when going uphill, but on the flat, then yes, I think it is inefficient and one of the reasons why I do worse on the flat (that and crank inertia). I try and sit more forward, but end up sliding back. I was having the debate on the trainer over the weekend as to whether I should set the bike with the saddle at the optimum height, but then, as I won`t ride that way on the road, is it worth it, and will those different neuron firing patterns confuse my body???
 
You must think we are a bunch of mugs, lowering the bar on acceptable banter like that.

Hop it.
 
Saturday is now closed, please contact me if you would like to be fit this Sunday.

Thank You.

-Chuck
 
Just before the ice age hit us here in Tokyo I had a fitting done by Chuck during his last visit.

I have tweaked and changed my fit quite a bit during the 2 years I had my road bike. I didn't have any pains or serious issues with my fit before visiting Chuck but a lot of questions.

We ended up stretching my position on the bike by adding about 10mm of saddle setback and fitting a 10mm longer stem.
We also fitted a set of pedal extenders.

I liked the method he used. Spending a lot of time looking at me on the bike, working together with me to find a position that looked better and also felt good to me.
I believe this is a much better way than to blindly trust measurements of the body.

I like the revised position on the bike. The slightly longer stem seems to take the edge of the twitchy handling of my Focus Cayo as a bonus.
pedal stroke feels cleaner and more natural.....not sure if this is from the position change or from the padal extanders.

I would recommend the services of Chuck even if you feel og on the bike. The things he changed for me I could not recognise myself despite being both able and interested in tweaking my own fit.

Money well spent!
 
We ended up stretching my position on the bike by adding about 10mm of saddle setback and fitting a 10mm longer stem.
We also fitted a set of pedal extenders.

does that mean the TT was originally too short or are you just exceptionally flexible? TH esetback sposts are all over the place so are Seat Tube angles too steep ala TT geo or have TT lengths and HT angles changed a heap?

Good report, thanks for that.
 
does that mean the TT was originally too short or are you just exceptionally flexible? TH esetback sposts are all over the place so are Seat Tube angles too steep ala TT geo or have TT lengths and HT angles changed a heap?

Good report, thanks for that.

Difficult to discuss frame geometries without pictures..
I went from a 110mm stem to a 120mm. I am not comfortable in a too low position but I still need the longer reach.
The Focus Cayo I have has steeper seat/headtube angles compared to my Caad 10. With similar amount of seat post showing on the Cannondale the effective reach is much longer. This also makes the C'dale slower steering and a bit more relaxed to ride.
 
I have openings for 2 appointments this Sunday.
Please PM me if interested.



Thank You for the great feedback everyone! I really love what I do and I am happy to make riding a bicycle a more enjoyable experience. Like I said, this is the best time of year to be fit.

Lets work together to make this your best year on the bike!

-Chuck
 
I will be in Yokohama this weekend and have openings, Please PM me if interested.

Thank You,

Chuck
 
Excited to get fit this weekend.
Maybe when it is all done, I will be .6 fast.:confused:
 
Did my fit this weekend with Chuck...

OK - so what did we learn?

The Rider:
Measured my legs - right leg 1mm longer. the difference is in my fibula.
Checked my feet and arches. Inspected the shoes for wear and stress.
End result was small are supports added. Nothing major and not overly noticeable.
Cleats are re aligned and due to wear on my crank arm - my feet are moved out a bit.
Learn some about which muscles are working at what times.... got to see some slides and such and a quick education.

The Bike -
Seat down - roughly 25mm
My seat was a bit too high and my ankle was opening up near the bottom of the down stroke.
On video, you could see just a little bit of hip rotation - it seems I was opening my ankle to limit this.

With the seat coming down, I now wanted to push back on the seat.
Seat back roughly 6mm
On video - compared my pedal stroke after adjustments - knee was making roughly the same motion, ankle stopped opening up as much (I believe the ankle will always be an issue due to 'how I ride')
So I have rotated back on bottom bracket - my initial setup was more a TT setup.

The bontrager seat I have sucks. (I replaced it this afternoon with an SDG Seat I have on another bike.)
The seat angle took a while to get due to the 'flex' in the bontrager seat. Just with you hand, you can collapse the middle of the seat roughly 3.5mm
Once we got the seat right, my pelvis was more rocked forward allowing my back to be straighter - eliminating a lot of the 'arch' that was in my back.

So - with the seat height and position adjusted, we moved to the front of the bike.
31Br-yp0sfL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

This tool is freaking awesome! You can adjust the height, reach while using your Handlebars mounted on your bike....

With this mounted - Chuck setup the bars as far forward as possible.
He had me close my eyes and spin. Pulling the back back until they felt 'right'
I stopped a few times thinking it was comfortable, but then decided there must be a more comfortable spot.
So I kept changing while keeping my eyes closed...

In the end, I found a sweet spot. Woot!
It happen to be the exact same stem length I had, but I moved the bars lower to the equivalent of flipping my stem. - cool, I don't need to buy anything.
So - since the seat came down, it makes sense for the bars to drop as well.
On the video when spinning you can now the desired 'A frame' shape between my back and arms.

------------
At this point, the fit is better than I have had in the past.

But this continues - now - the fitting goes from profile to now head on.
Lasers are set up to track knee and foot movement....

Houston... we have a problem.
Non drive side crank arm is bent!!!

Knowing this - we continue on.
My right leg tracks well, left has issues... but there is the issue with the crank arm.
My stance needs to be widened, however that will require pedal extenders.
----

In the end - I have not put any miles on the fit, so I will give a followup later.
We compromised on seat height.
He asked after I ride this for a couple weeks to drop the seat 2mm and give that a shot.

Overall good learning experience.
 
A wee question from an interested party.

So, the way this works is you are fit to the bike you ride, or is there plenty to take away and apply to any and every bike?

Different bikes have different purposes and those different purposes require different riding styles, I assume. Would you need to, then, be fitted for every bike you ride individually?
 
Chuck would be the ideal one to answer, but my response would be 'yes' - also I would say - the bike was fit to me, not the other way around. We did not compromise my position to work around the bikes limitations, but rather adjusted the bike to get me to the ideal position.

Different bikes with different purposed should be set up different - since your goal is different.
Chuck emailed me a questionnaire prior to the fit so he knew my goals with the fit prior to the fitting. In my case, it was about comfort. If I had a TT, the goal would be pure speed. There setups differ.

Saying that, I feel confident with what I learned I could adjust my other bikes and get them 'close' - I better know what to look for in my fit. So there is knowledge that carries over from bike to bike.

*** and I now have a baseline with regards to future purchases :)
 
So, the way this works is you are fit to the bike you ride, or is there plenty to take away and apply to any and every bike?

Different bikes have different purposes and those different purposes require different riding styles, I assume. Would you need to, then, be fitted for every bike you ride individually?

Of course you would! The fit for my stage race bike is different to that of my criterium bike and cx bike
 
I was asking by implication what you could take away from one fitting that could be applied to other bikes. You, yourself, have said that from your meeting you are able to give your bike maker some guidance for future bikes.

Look, I'm new to this and was asking for some clarification on how one meeting translates over and above the bike that is fitted to you. If it is just that very one bike or if it is a more comprehensive list of things that can bear fruit even if you get a new bike. :eek:
 
Look, I'm new to this and was asking for some clarification on how one meeting translates over and above the bike that is fitted to you. If it is just that very one bike or if it is a more comprehensive list of things that can bear fruit even if you get a new bike. :eek:

I don't think James was trying to knock you. Different bikes for different disciplines have there own geometries to perform best in esch discipline.


Zinn explains a bit here https://tokyocycle.com/bbs/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=58055

"Dear Lennard,
There have been a lot of recent tips from you guys on replicating bike position in the past few weeks, and lots of comments. I understand the stack and reach measurements, and how to use them to create the same contact point positions from bike to bike, especially the saddle in relation to the bottom bracket, regardless of frame geometry. I'd say it's fair to assume that most folks have different handlebar positions on bikes intended for different riding — the lowest, most stretched out position on their road bike, possibly a slightly higher, shorter cockpit on the 'cross bike, and an even higher (possibly level with the saddle) bar on the cross-country or trail mountain bike.

So my question is, in your opinion, do you recommend the exact same saddle position on all bikes, regardless of relative bar reach and drop? It would seem to me that as the bars get higher and higher, and your torso becomes more vertical, that your center of mass would shift, and thus your weight distribution (and balance) between feet, butt, and hands would change. Would that necessitate small adjustments in saddle height or setback for the best balance point, or do you recommend just keeping the saddle at the same position, and adjusting weight distribution by changing stem angle and height as needed.
— Adam

Dear Adam,
When you get to more downhill riding on a mountain bike, you definitely use a totally different saddle position. But from road to track to cyclocross to cross-country mountain bike even to enduro or trail mountain bike riding, I generally recommend the same saddle height. The fore-aft position of the saddle, however, I do recommend changing for the particular discipline. An obvious circumstance where this changes is in time trials and triathlons. On mountain bikes with long travel, I also recommend a slightly more forward saddle position so that the rider doesn't end up floundering way back on climbs when the suspension sags deeply into its rear travel, especially if the fork cannot be lowered for climbing like on a Fox TALAS or the like. On track bikes, the saddle position is generally more forward than on the road as well. Cyclocross bikes often end up being actually the same position as the road bike, including the bars."


On the last point I would disagree, CX bikes might do better with wider bars for handling on the rough and opening the chest for breathing as James mentioned in the bars thread.

Keep asking your questions.
 
I was asking by implication what you could take away from one fitting that could be applied to other bikes. You, yourself, have said that from your meeting you are able to give your bike maker some guidance for future bikes.

Look, I'm new to this and was asking for some clarification on how one meeting translates over and above the bike that is fitted to you. If it is just that very one bike or if it is a more comprehensive list of things that can bear fruit even if you get a new bike. :eek:

Its not what you read but how you read it - don't be so defensive as I was energetically agreeing with the statement, something I'm prone to do at 6am having drank my 5 liter of coffee.
 
One thing having an initial 'fit' done by a pro like Chuck is that you will get to know more about how you are engaging with the bike. And especially small things like pedal plane, shoulder alignment, etc. These could be bad habits worn into yourself, biomechanical defects or just component size and fits that are totally wacked. But, go through the process one time and start sorting these out. The earlier , the better. Then, the fine tuning becomes easier and more practical in an ongoing basis. Of course different rigs / events /etc will require slightly different stance and position - but this will be much easier to sort out once you know the above. There is no set 'formula' , but there are generalities which put you into the ball park. How you actually hit the ball (or crank the pedal) is finally up to you.
 
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