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External navigators - why bother ?

Alrt let me do a quick test here. I will setup my iPhone with iTunes on, navi set to Osaka, keep the screen on and leave it to see how long the battery lasts. Not exactly running outside but the GPS chip + location lock will be live so should emulate your outside running
 
Well, don't forget power consumption is also a matter of cell-searching (radio activity) and ambient temperature. What I like about having my GPS /Bike computer separate is really the fact that I KNOW I'll have a functional phone if I need it. In my last ride, my Garmin 705 failed completely and utterly having been soaked by continuous rain - and then, in a last fit of punishment - I lost it (stolen, left behind or whatever) when I packed up my bike to fly home. But, I still had my phone as it stays more or less zipped up in the same pocket in my jersey for any ride or trip duration.

Alrt let me do a quick test here. I will setup my iPhone with iTunes on, navi set to Osaka, keep the screen on and leave it to see how long the battery lasts. Not exactly running outside but the GPS chip + location lock will be live so should emulate your outside running
 
Well, don't forget power consumption is also a matter of cell-searching (radio activity) and ambient temperature. What I like about having my GPS /Bike computer separate is really the fact that I KNOW I'll have a functional phone if I need it. In my last ride, my Garmin 705 failed completely and utterly having been soaked by continuous rain - and then, in a last fit of punishment - I lost it (stolen, left behind or whatever) when I packed up my bike to fly home. But, I still had my phone as it stays more or less zipped up in the same pocket in my jersey for any ride or trip duration.

At this rate I might as well start preparing to buy an edge 800 myself :)

Does the j version allow you to change the menu to English ? Is Japanese garmin map worth the price ? Can you navigate the map/edit route etc on the device itself ?
 
Looks the answer to my third question is yes. Also it seems compatible with my wahoo fitness gadget
 
Does the j version allow you to change the menu to English ?

Perhaps just get the English language version and then you will not have to worry about it (and you will be able to get it a lot cheaper than the Japanese version)
 
Perhaps just get the English language version and then you will not have to worry about it (and you will be able to get it a lot cheaper than the Japanese version)

Yes that sounds good however I recall some member here telling that the English version won't be able to display kanji's even if I have a Japanese maps. If the j version can switch the menu to English like my zumo it sounds like a better option even if I decide not to go with garmin map. At least will have the option to go with
 
At this rate I might as well start preparing to buy an edge 800 myself :)

Does the j version allow you to change the menu to English ?
Yes
Is Japanese garmin map worth the price ?
It's up to you. Can you read Kanji? If not, get the UpUpDown map. If you can, look at both and see which you like.
Can you navigate the map/edit route etc on the device itself ?
Yes but it's a faff on the small screen. Better to do it at home.
...
 
Does the j version allow you to change the menu to English ? Is Japanese garmin map worth the price ? Can you navigate the map/edit route etc on the device itself ?
Yes

No

Yes

I prefer to keep them separate; I use the screen all the time, for one thing or another. The 7 or 8 hours of the Edge 800 is manageable. I'd prefer the 20 hours of an eTrex or Oregon GPS, but they don't support cycling sensors. An iPhone would not do at all.

May I introduce you to the Multi-quote function? Click two or more of these buttons, then the quote button, to combine responses into a single message.
 
Can you navigate the map/edit route etc on the device itself ?
Yes but it's a faff on the small screen. Better to do it at home.
Agreed. But when you need it, it's wonderful.

When something unexpected happens, e.g., someone (hopefully not me this time) has major mechanical trauma, or a storm is coming in, or I get called in because of a crisis at work...

Menu
Where to?
(cursor down down down)
Transportation
Ground Transportation

...and I get a list of stations in proximity order of straight-line distance. Touch one, touch GO, and it guides me in. This has saved many bacons over the years. Of course this is possible - easier in fact - with a smart phone. IF you have enough charge left.
 
I ran a marathon with my iPhone4 using Endomondo... My wife was here and I was in the US. It allowed her to track me real time during the event.

It died at mile 25.5 - less than 1 mile from the finish!!!!
With itunes and endomondo - 3hrs 55 minutes. - dead.

Should have run faster, then.




Shurely the juice running out of your phone battery would have made you lighter. Non?

I'm surprised no one made a crack I should have run faster yet....
:eek:
 
My absolute FAVORITE feature of the Garmin!

Agreed. But when you need it, it's wonderful.

When something unexpected happens, e.g., someone (hopefully not me this time) has major mechanical trauma, or a storm is coming in, or I get called in because of a crisis at work...

Menu
Where to?
(cursor down down down)
Transportation
Ground Transportation

...and I get a list of stations in proximity order of straight-line distance. Touch one, touch GO, and it guides me in. This has saved many bacons over the years. Of course this is possible - easier in fact - with a smart phone. IF you have enough charge left.
 
I ran a marathon with my iPhone4 using Endomondo... My wife was here and I was in the US. It allowed her to track me real time during the event.

It died at mile 25.5 - less than 1 mile from the finish!!!!
With itunes and endomondo - 3hrs 55 minutes. - dead.

Before I started using a buffer battery I was getting about 5-6 hours of GPS recording time on my Android phone, so 4 for an iPhone doesn't entirely surprise me.

If Endomondo wasn't just logging for later upload but also live tracking (i.e. continually sending position data to a server), that would have meant a lot of radio usage, which uses more power.

I have found that using the phone where there is no data coverage also cuts down battery life, as it spends even more energy continually trying to connect to a mobile phone tower. In areas without phone reception you're better off switching to airplane mode (i.e. turning off the cell radio).
 
Yes

No

Yes

I prefer to keep them separate; I use the screen all the time, for one thing or another. The 7 or 8 hours of the Edge 800 is manageable. I'd prefer the 20 hours of an eTrex or Oregon GPS, but they don't support cycling sensors. An iPhone would not do at all.

May I introduce you to the Multi-quote function? Click two or more of these buttons, then the quote button, to combine responses into a single message.

Thanks for the multi quote tip mate.

iPhone actually does support cycling or biosensors. I am using Wahoo's heart rate sensor with wahoo fitness app on iPhone paired via Bluetooth 4. Unlike older version devieces iPhone 4S and 5 support ANT+/BT 4 which allows BT pairing at app level rather than devive level thereby consuming less battery. You can pair ANT+ devices directly with compatible app on iPhone without any accessory 4S version onwards. Its like having data on your PC from where you can upload it to any site of your choice with a single click.
 
Yes

No

Yes

I prefer to keep them separate; I use the screen all the time, for one thing or another. The 7 or 8 hours of the Edge 800 is manageable. I'd prefer the 20 hours of an eTrex or Oregon GPS, but they don't support cycling sensors. An iPhone would not do at all.

May I introduce you to the Multi-quote function? Click two or more of these buttons, then the quote button, to combine responses into a single message.


Before I started using a buffer battery I was getting about 5-6 hours of GPS recording time on my Android phone, so 4 for an iPhone doesn't entirely surprise me.

If Endomondo wasn't just logging for later upload but also live tracking (i.e. continually sending position data to a server), that would have meant a lot of radio usage, which uses more power.

I have found that using the phone where there is no data coverage also cuts down battery life, as it spends even more energy continually trying to connect to a mobile phone tower. In areas without phone reception you're better off switching to airplane mode (i.e. turning off the cell radio).

You are right however iPhone sucks here. If you turn ON airplane mode then iphone disables GPS chip as well. Basically just a music player...
 
Alright here is the result from my little test. Setup
- iPhone 5
- screen set to never lock
- Bluetooth enabled, connected to a ant+ device and Bluetooth headphone. Music running, 320 Kbps VBR mp3
- map set to navigate to Osaka which it tried to do throughout the test
- screen set at 80% brightness and didn't go off throughout the test
- a dedicated GPS position recorder running to log GPS position every 10 secs
- made two calls lasting a min each
- browsed this forum a few times

Test started with iPhone 98% charged. It took 5 hrs and 10 mins to drain the battery to 20 percent remaining. Pretty decent if you ask me given the operations running on it. Off course the test was n a warmed up room, at lower outside temperatures the life will be lesser. Also hunting for phone signals will do some damage. So lets say 4 hrs is what I would expect. Adding a 2000 mAH battery case like Mophie will double up the life. 8 hours straight run is quite decent still leaving some emergency juice. Also one would expect to stop and recharge himself during such a long ride allowing some time to charge the battery too.

So debating throughout the day my conclusion is that you could infact live with your phone as navigator with an external battery case at a very minimum unless its raining. That said I would always be worried and checking the battery level which could be stressful on a ride. It would also be extremely frustrating to take a break to charge the battery when you are in the zone. A dedicated navi will bring that peace of mind.

Found a very good and detailed review on edge 800. Interestingly after a very positive review the author asks the same question I am asking I.e. edge vs sp. things have moved on since his review and now SP's can pair with ant+ devices natively.

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2010/08/garmin-edge-800-in-depth-first-look.html
 
That said I would always be worried and checking the battery level which could be stressful on a ride. It would also be extremely frustrating to take a break to charge the battery when you are in the zone.

I stopped worrying about battery life when I got my 5,000 mAh USB battery, which I used on 227 km and 235 km rides. For the last 7+ months I've been using an 8,000 mAh battery, including on a 300 km brevet. My monthly long rides tend to last 12-14 hours, but I also want to try some longer brevets again in 2013 (300 km, possibly 400).

The drawbacks of my smartphone vs. a Garmin 500 or 800 that I notice are:
  • No barometric altimeter - my elevation totals in Strava and RWGPS can be way off
  • The GPS is less reliable than a Garmin - it often misses urban Strava segments surrounded by tall buildings because it puts me on the wrong road; I've lost satellite lock in the mountains when a friend's Garmin was fine
  • No ANT+ support for HR, cadence sensor, etc. The iPhone 4S/5 doesn't have that either, but it at least supports BTLE
  • Needs USB battery to last longer than 5-6 hours = 2 units instead of one
  • Screen more power hungry than on a Garmin
  • a typical Smartphone is more expensive to replace than a Garmin 500 if you break or soak it
I have not tested how long the device would last with the 8,000 mAh battery with the screen permanently on (Android has a convenient option to not go into sleep mode when running on external power), but will probably experiment with that a bit.

Advantage of a smartphone vs. a Garmin:
  • If you already own a smartphone, all you buy is a buffer battery and a handle bar mount - way cheaper than a Garmin (unless you break the phone!)
  • Google Maps is far more powerful than any Garmin cycling computer, e.g. train schedules and fares
  • Also handles SMS, email, phone calls, camera, etc. in one unit (but may need external battery, which partly negates this)
  • choice of GPS logging app
 
Thanks Joe.

Yesterday I managed to somehow completly ignore one of iPhone's biggest weakness, though built as a safety measure. I usually keep my iPhone in my tank bag right in the top pocket under transparent plastic to easily view it. iPhone is pluggged to bike's cigeratte lighter adaptor and GPS tracker/logger is on to record my tracks. More then once iPhone went quite hot and shut itself down. The GPS logger writes data every 10 sec so the track was preserved though I doubt something like wahoo fitness may be able to do the same. In any case loosing the phone on heat in a crucial moment could be a definete showstopper.

A big one in favor of Edge 800 IMO.
 
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