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Disco or Disc oh!

My Felt bike has been thrown out. I've reclaimed my old Surly Cross Check from my son and have fixed it up for touring using parts from my Felt. So, with that option covered, and after reading folks ideas here, I think my best, (and cheapest) option is to just get more comfortable with the Ultegra brakes on my Panasonic and get more experience with mountain downhills.

Been reading what I can on the diff btwn the different brake systems but always better to get input from folks who've got experience with them. Thanks.
 
rider input is what causes a crashes, mechanically the less you have to work with in terms of finess the more likely you are to make small errors that result in a crash.
The reason for disc brakes (once they are up to standard) would be modulation. Not outright stopping power , because you can lock up the brakes with any set of brakes.
What you don't have with cheap brakes is fine control of the brake release and without that it is much easier to overload the front tyre as the momentum changes coming off the brakes to the apex of the turn.

The other aspect of disc brakes which hasn't been discussed is the damping effect that rim brakes would have during braking, controlling flex and vibration within the rim. You would have none of that with a disc set up. I wonder if that is noticeable?
 
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Yeah, good points.

My take on it, after some consideration...

Disc brakes have the exact same task as rim brakes; reducing speed, and eventually stopping the bike. When a bike comes to a stop, the system which brought it to that point becomes irrelevant. Both disc and rim brakes stop bikes, so there is no winner there. From the maximum speed, down to zero, or down to the required reduced speed, however, there are a variety of factors which are important, as well as some external ones, but the main two can essentially be summarised as; efficiency and resolution. With both of these key factors, it is simply the case that more = better, so the braking system which is more efficient and with higher resolution wins... but there is more to it than that... Rim brakes have increased in efficiency and resolution over time, and are therefore not rendered obsolete by disc brakes; they have improved in tandem with the development of disc brakes, and indeed with the latest Dura Ace 9100 rim brakes being claimed 48% stiffer than the previous versions, and with higher resolution in their movement as well, they will remain more than powerful enough for everybody.

I think at this point in time, the advantages of having disc over the current best rim offering, are not actually efficiency and resolution (when the intended use is considered), but the tertiary advantages, such as riding in the wet, no rim brake track wear, a potentially stiffer axle system being the standard, etc. There are disadvantages too, such as weight, faffing about, being forced into building wheels in a certain way, danger of flesh slicing, etc, so rather than coming in and blowing rim brakes out of contention, I consider them to be more of a personal preference / usage alternative, based on how and where you ride your bike.

As for how the rim and spokes behave when braking in comparison to rim brake wheels; that is an interesting question, and one I have put a lot of thought into... Have not reached a conclusion yet though.
 
too many cars
Yeah, it's the one you're thinking of. Usually too many cars, but I hit it at around 9:00 a.m. (Sat.) so it was basically deserted.
I struck two motorbikes and two cars on their way up, but was always ready for anything with the lines (not coke) that I took.
 
Their task is not reducing speed, it's controlling speed. Sometimes you use them without actually slowing down. And sometimes you use them to control acceleration.

Yeah, good points.

My take on it, after some consideration...

Disc brakes have the exact same task as rim brakes; reducing speed, and eventually stopping the bike. When a bike comes to a stop, the system which brought it to that point becomes irrelevant. Both disc and rim brakes stop bikes, so there is no winner there. From the maximum speed, down to zero, or down to the required reduced speed, however, there are a variety of factors which are important, as well as some external ones, but the main two can essentially be summarised as; efficiency and resolution. With both of these key factors, it is simply the case that more = better, so the braking system which is more efficient and with higher resolution wins... but there is more to it than that... Rim brakes have increased in efficiency and resolution over time, and are therefore not rendered obsolete by disc brakes; they have improved in tandem with the development of disc brakes, and indeed with the latest Dura Ace 9100 rim brakes being claimed 48% stiffer than the previous versions, and with higher resolution in their movement as well, they will remain more than powerful enough for everybody.

I think at this point in time, the advantages of having disc over the current best rim offering, are not actually efficiency and resolution (when the intended use is considered), but the tertiary advantages, such as riding in the wet, no rim brake track wear, a potentially stiffer axle system being the standard, etc. There are disadvantages too, such as weight, faffing about, being forced into building wheels in a certain way, danger of flesh slicing, etc, so rather than coming in and blowing rim brakes out of contention, I consider them to be more of a personal preference / usage alternative, based on how and where you ride your bike.

As for how the rim and spokes behave when braking in comparison to rim brake wheels; that is an interesting question, and one I have put a lot of thought into... Have not reached a conclusion yet though.
 
I wouldn't like to have seen myself do it either. I was on the razor's edge, which is not something I do often.
Bad boy. I never push it to that extent on the downhills. I know my capabilities but I don't know the capabilities of other road users. Glad to hear you got off the mountain in one piece though. Would be very interesting to give you a disc equivalent of your bike and let you hit the same descent and see how much it makes a difference ;)
 
You do; they are non-existent.
Without wanting to change the topic too much, I find most drivers in Japan are ok. It's the odd one or two moronic idiots that give everyone a bad name. It's those fools we all need to be careful off, especially when descending.
 
My point being, to always assume the worst, and therefore offer oneself the best chance of survival.
It only takes one idiot huh. I always stick to the left side of the road as much as possible. No racing lines for me. But even being on the far left hand side of the road doesn't mean we are safe, especially on narrow twisty mountain roads.
 
That's it, init. I always assume there is the biggest bellend ever, doing donuts, blindfolded, waiting for me around every corner. There usually isn't, but I prefer to be safe than dead.

The exception to this is when you can see right down the road, at the top of a load of switch backs, for example, then you can give some, but even then I have never completely let go when descending. I am saving up for my own mountainous island at the moment, which will fix all of these issues, and give me empty roads to bomb it down to my hearts content.
 
This is my favourite thread, can someone please post something more regarding this topic... So entertaining, love the disc debate
 
And if @Chrisisism wasn't being ironic....

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/08/what...gests-for-the-future-of-aero-disc-road-bikes/

Aside from the Specialised marketing guff, the article puts forward the view that the industry will advance quickly in the next couple of years in the space of better aerodynamics for disc road bikes. Hence my conclusion from reading it, is, if you aren't quite as worried about a fast aerodynamic bike (eg want a touring/gravel/sportive bike with better wet weather braking, to add to your existing stable) then it's fine to get a disc bike now, but if you are buying "the" bike for your fastest riding then hold off for a couple of years while they get the new more aero disc components out
 
And if @Chrisisism wasn't being ironic....

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/08/what...gests-for-the-future-of-aero-disc-road-bikes/

Aside from the Specialised marketing guff, the article puts forward the view that the industry will advance quickly in the next couple of years in the space of better aerodynamics for disc road bikes. Hence my conclusion from reading it, is, if you aren't quite as worried about a fast aerodynamic bike (eg want a touring/gravel/sportive bike with better wet weather braking, to add to your existing stable) then it's fine to get a disc bike now, but if you are buying "the" bike for your fastest riding then hold off for a couple of years while they get the new more aero disc components out


Of course I was not ironic. Good article. I read into it that flat mount itself is good enough to adapt to disc.
Everything is constantly evolvong, so no need to wait a few years, because then something else will be the cause to wait, graphene frames, etc..
 
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