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Disco or Disc oh!

Agree. Worst wet weather conditions I have ever encountered in a road race and never did I once think I could not brake, and this is with the pressures of a race, holding wheels and taking way more risks that one would ever admit to their wife. Rim brakes just work, but I do understand the flexibility that disc provides. Outside of racing, the demands on the rim brake would be even less critical, unless you always ride to the limit of your equipment. I think it is more a case of ability, tyre choice and tyre pressures that force the limit, not the braking itself.

That rain destroyed my stages. But I seem to have fixed it by putting it in a bag of rice overnight. So it was a good prize after all!

Andy

www.jyonnobitime.com/time
 
I think it is more a case of ability, tyre choice and tyre pressures that force the limit, not the braking itself.
and that is why fo many novices to the sport of cycling discs are a good option. I have both and if I were racing I'd use the rim brakes. If I were doing brevets and such I'd use my disk equipped bike. Remember there is always N+1.
 
In the last 5 years I have had 3 disc bikes and 2 rim brake bikes. I'm not strong enough to usually* snap pieces and can only talk from my weekend warrior experience.
My first bike here was a Boardman Hybrid with Avid 5 hydraulic disc brakes. Great starter bike and the brakes exuded confidence. According to Strava I did over 4000km before the pads needed changing.
I then got a proper road bike - Boardman 9.8 SLR with rim brakes (Alu brake track C24 wheels). Loved it but always felt the brakes were not as good as the hybrid, especially in the wet (and most especially coming down Norikura in heavy, cold rain!). So lusted after a disc brake Road bike.
I therefore got a Boardman 9.8 CXR frame with the brand new Shimano 785 hydraulics. I bought the SRAM ones first (based on having such a good time with Avid) but they were recalled before I could complete the build. Bike was fine but the brakes kept leaking small amounts of Hydraulic Oil from the ceramic pistons, causing it to eat pads on a regular basis. Shortly after, through fitting, I realised that both Boardman frames were too large on the reach for me.
Hence next bike was a smaller, rim-braked, Neil Pride Bura SL *which I snapped the frame on after only 1,400km
Decided that the next bike was going to be a disc brake Synapse which was a perfect size with the newer Shimano hydraulic callipers to hopefully avoid the leaking problem. Love the bike - very comfortable but still have issues with one caliper.
In the meantime I took all my old rim brake parts, a very short stem, my old Boardman SLR frame and bought some Far Sports 50mm wheels to put together a "winter run-around".

Honestly I have so much fun in the mountains here on my "run-around" with the cheap Carbon wheels that it really shows up the pluses and minuses of the Disc brake bike. (+'s less handache on long descents, confidence, better braking in downpours -'s hydraulic hassles, less comfortable Brifters, squeals/squeaking, 500g heavier bike, high speed descent wobbles**). Ironically one of the main reasons I got a disc brake bike was to move to all carbon wheels, but the weather here is dry enough that I find the rim braking on my carbon wheels is as good as my alu ones!

So in conclusion I would not bother with a Disc-brake bike for the next year in Japan, except if,
  • You can't pick and choose your riding days to avoid the rain e.g. you enjoy multi-day rides / touring / or commute to work
  • You are starting out more seriously cycling in at an older age and would like the extra confidence disc brakes give on long descents, etc
  • Heavier bike/rider combination
  • Off road/gravel riding in mixed conditions
Once the aerodynamics, ergonomics, and reliability improve I think next generation will sway my view back to disc - I'm waiting on the SRAM red hydraulic/ remote shifting combo which will get put on my Synapse with the Shimano set relegated to a CX monster that is being planned for the winter...but that is another story

**- possible from more side area for the wind to hit or just the braking itself causing some instability
 
One advantage to disc not even related to braking... If you use the same hub and disc, you can change the wheels out with minimal adjustments. This opens up different rim widths and tire profile choices without adjusting your brakes with rim widths.

Another advantage - if you bugger up your rim/break a spoke etc, you are limited by seat stays and chain stays vs your rim brakes. You can release your rim brake as much as it allows, however you still run into issues if you need the brake while riding.

That said, I run rim brakes on my road bike. When the weather is bad, if I am going to ride, I pull out my MTBs or my CycloCross bike.

All my MTBs run the same hub (except my new set) for quick interchangeability. I can swap tires/gear ratios on a whim with no setup changes.
 
If you ride many disciplines: Since wide rims, thru-axle and tubeless is standard nowadays I like the fact that you can use the same high-end carbon wheels for MTB 29er, CX and Road. Makes it a bit less expensive.
 
If you ride many disciplines: Since wide rims, thru-axle and tubeless is standard nowadays I like the fact that you can use the same high-end carbon wheels for MTB 29er, CX and Road. Makes it a bit less expensive.
Since when has money ever been an issue for you ??? ;)
 
Braking power... question...

I'm old enough that my greatest concern is safety not necessarily top speed.

Done lots of commuting, found that the only brakes that would stop me on a downhill in the rain were the Shimano XTR's. Love them.

Have an old Panasonic steel frame that I just got back into shape. Took it up in the mountains. Really didn't feel comfortable with the much reduced stopping power on the downhills, even in dry conditions. (I repeat... not interested in speeding down the mountains). So, found myself on the brakes a lot (Ultegras) and having to hold significant pressure on the brakes for extended periods vs. light touch and very good stopping power with my XTRs and flat bar.

Looks like my Felt bike (hybrid) is about to have a frame problem. Considering new bike. Looking at the Canyons. But their road bikes either have discs or the same Ultegra setup I have on my Panasonic.

So... the question is...

Is there perhaps something I can do to get more braking power out of the side pull brakes like the Ultegras, or, if I want better braking on a road bike, do I pretty much have to go to discs?
 
Related to braking power and modulation not discs but; I've been riding 105 5700 this week and, though I was told, it took personal experience to inform me that if you go back down the evolution of brakes you'll find it surprising what we managed with. DA 9000 on my bike in Japan and I'm looking forward to getting on the next iteration when I can.

I was all for discs but now I'm not so sure. That Cycling Podcast special highlighted that the pro mechanics think the development isn't done yet and there is still much to be worked out. I think often the pros are the Guinea pigs but it's the other way around for road bikes this time.
 
I absolutely caned it down a descent yesterday at break neck speed (harder than I've done in a damn long time) on my non-disc, carbon rim setup and never had a moment.
Of course disc brakes have the braking surface power to deliver more stopping power, but I think it all comes down to what you've got used to in the end.

I wouldn't rule out getting disc brakes in the future, however I am satisfied with my current braking system.
It's good for me.
 
Related to braking power and modulation not discs but; I've been riding 105 5700 this week and, though I was told, it took personal experience to inform me that if you go back down the evolution of brakes you'll find it surprising what we managed with. DA 9000 on my bike in Japan and I'm looking forward to getting on the next iteration when I can.

Was thinking of upgrading from ultegra to dura ace brakes, but not sure if the extra cost would equal better stopping power.

Thoughts?
 
As of yet, haven't used disc brakes. Been looking at them. They seem like they might be a bit finicky though. The other downside of the hydraulic discs seems to be that if you have a problem out in the middle of nowhere, you can't just fix them yourself.

Thoughts?
 
I absolutely caned it down a descent yesterday at break neck speed (harder than I've done in a damn long time) on my non-disc, carbon rim setup and never had a moment.
Of course disc brakes have the braking surface power to deliver more stopping power, but I think it all comes down to what you've got used to in the end.

I wouldn't rule out getting disc brakes in the future, however I am satisfied with my current braking system.
It's good for me.

Hahahaha. I saw that KOM you took down Nihongi. Christ. I am not even sure I would have wanted to see you do that.
 
I love descending, particularly sketchy ones and gforces in doing corners at max speed. That was the reasoning I was looking forward to discs in my next bikes. After my rim brake road bike got stolen that left me just with the disc CX bike for now. I went through mechanical shimano and the trp calipers, all kinds of top pad and rotors, but still am not as satisfied. Maybe that will change when I get the new hydro dura shifters and calipers next year, but I had higher expectations to have even more fun on descends. Instead the modulation changes when the things heat up, they squeal and pads last 4000km at most.
For me discs are still not the best braking solution available and I feel the need again to get a no-nonsense rim brake n+1 again. I liked riding in the rain when I still had the time and the limiting factor was the tire patch rather than the brake pads.

My suggestion would be to prioritize geometry when buying a new bike. The more good wheels you have already, the higher the drawback. Now shimano has the flatbolt standards, through bolt ATS seems to be the norm, but maybe it's better to give it another 2yrs for the standards to converge?
 
I love descending, particularly sketchy ones and gforces in doing corners at max speed. That was the reasoning I was looking forward to discs in my next bikes. After my rim brake road bike got stolen that left me just with the disc CX bike for now. I went through mechanical shimano and the trp calipers, all kinds of top pad and rotors, but still am not as satisfied. Maybe that will change when I get the new hydro dura shifters and calipers next year, but I had higher expectations to have even more fun on descends. Instead the modulation changes when the things heat up, they squeal and pads last 4000km at most.
For me discs are still not the best braking solution available and I feel the need again to get a no-nonsense rim brake n+1 again. I liked riding in the rain when I still had the time and the limiting factor was the tire patch rather than the brake pads.

My suggestion would be to prioritize geometry when buying a new bike. The more good wheels you have already, the higher the drawback. Now shimano has the flatbolt standards, through bolt ATS seems to be the norm, but maybe it's better to give it another 2yrs for the standards to converge?

Good post, especially the point about the tyre being the limiting factor in the wet rather than the brakes.
 
I absolutely caned it down a descent yesterday at break neck speed (harder than I've done in a damn long time) on my non-disc, carbon rim setup and never had a moment.
Of course disc brakes have the braking surface power to deliver more stopping power, but I think it all comes down to what you've got used to in the end.

I wouldn't rule out getting disc brakes in the future, however I am satisfied with my current braking system.
It's good for me.
Of is the descent I'm thinking of, it's a cracker. Although always too many cars I've ever been on it. What day and time did you hit it?
 
there's a reason there isn't or never will be even ultegra level mechanical disc brakes, they are not up to snuff, with on-sided pistons etc are prone to sqeeling etc.

From Actual experience I can say hydro disc > DA rim > mechanical disk
(Although the mech disc was on an old cross bike so might be better stuff out there now)

That being said, if you are satisfied with your current brakes there no reason to get a new bike just for discs.
 
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