Today Dec 2018

luka

luka

Maximum Pace
Jan 13, 2015
945
491
93
#21
Tokigawa Base has closed down for good due to financial difficulties
didn't know that! too bad... not 100% sure but it looks like Tanigawa twin peaks at the centre of your photo, with Nikko mountains (Shirane and Nantai) to the right all the way back. if so, quite a visibility! tho I can see Nantai from my balcony in Adachi ku but yeah ;)
 
Likes: stu_kawagoe
joewein

joewein

Maximum Pace
Oct 25, 2011
2,470
968
133
Setagaya, Tokyo
joewein.net
#22
Even if you and your bike are “heavier than average”, I would not expect this level of wear.
I am curious how my weight on my bike compares to others around here. For recreational riding, bike weight is highly overrated, compared to factors such as comfort, safety and convenience. For almost anyone not a professional athlete, body weight should be a more important metric than bike weight (regardless of what the bike industry would have us believe) and even then it matters less than we think.

At my current body weight, me and my bike (including all fixed attachments, i.e. front rack, fenders, dynamo head light, rear light, bell, phone holder, bottle cages but excluding water bottles or front bag) weigh 85 kg.

Looking at a recent climb of the Wada rindo, climbing 400 m of elevation in about 40 minutes at a speed at which air resistance is negligible compared to the weight being lifted corresponds to 139 W (*) at 85 kg. On that climb each kg lost (assuming no change in power output) would save me about half a minute to the top.

On a typical long weekend ride I accumulate about 1600-2000 m of elevation gain, so that's 2-2.5 minutes gained over the entire day per kg lost.

I am now 6 kg heavier than I was 6 years ago, but am trying to shed about half of that by watching what I eat. If I were to return to my 2012 weight when my wife found me too skinny, I might save a whopping 12-15 minutes of climbing in a 160-190 km cycling day, about as much as one brief extra conbini stop.

----
(*) (85 * (9.81 N) * (400 m)) / (40 * 60 s)
 
bloaker

bloaker

Maximum Pace
Nov 14, 2011
1,689
1,525
433
Miura, Japan
#23
How does weight factor into it? Small rotor stopping 100kgs is working a lot harder and creating more heat than the same rotor stopping 50kgs.
Heat is a big issue with brakes. One of the main reasons for biggers brakes on downhill MTBs is heat dissipation. It isn't that they stop tremendously better, but near the end of the run, they are cooler than smaller rotors and are able to continue functioning where smaller rotor setups are starting to fade.

I outweigh you significantly. I ride in mud, muck, water, etc...
I also do days at the MTB Park where it is hours of downhill on my brakes of the course of a day.
I only ride 180mm discs on my Enduro. I have run pads all the way down to showing rivets <-- this is bad.
This has scarred my rotor, however it still looked better than yours.

I am in agreement with @OreoCookie that something is wrong.
 
Likes: luka
luka

luka

Maximum Pace
Jan 13, 2015
945
491
93
#24
Yeah, I third the abnormal wear argument. My commuter had 160mm rotors and I used them heavily for over 3 years without ever coming even close to that degree of wear @joewein
 
stu_kawagoe

stu_kawagoe

Maximum Pace
Jun 23, 2018
203
167
63
#26
😆 Definitely makes me want to head out further afield next spring!
 
O

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
472
226
73
42
#27
I am curious how my weight on my bike compares to others around here. For recreational riding, bike weight is highly overrated, compared to factors such as comfort, safety and convenience.
It's not the weight.

Here is my longer explanation: Brakes convert kinetic energy into heat, and kinetic energy scales linearly with mass. And weight only factors in when it comes to avoiding brake fade due to overheating — here, a 20 % larger combined weight of bike and rider may really play a role. But unless you are running 140 mm rotors front and rear, overheating should not be an issue on a road bike. Just as a point of comparison: my hard tail MTB from a few years back had 180 mm rotors in the front and 160 mm in the rear. When I rode down Tremalzo (1400 m down), the only brake fade I got was in my fingers. ;) And MTB brakes have to work much, much harder than road bike brakes.

That's why disc brake road bikes usually come with 160 mm rotors in the front and either 160 mm or 140 mm in the rear. Only the super-duper high-end road bikes come with 140 mm front discs sometimes in some misguided attempt to save weight. (I think it's pretty stupid.)

Brake fade has nothing to do with wear, though. And yes, if you weigh more, that may accelerate wear, but the accelerated wear should be limited to your brake pads, not your rotors.

So even if you increased your combined weight of bike and rider by 20 %, that just means you have 20 % higher heat dissipation needs as a lighter rider, but that only matters when you discuss choosing the right sized brake rotors to avoid fading. On road bikes, I don't think this is a problem, especially if you use the default disk rotor size (160 mm front and either 160 mm or 140 mm in the rear). My hard tail MTB a few years back had 160 mm in the back and 180 mm in the front, and that was plenty.

Also, none of this has to do with unusual wear, choosing the right sized brake rotors is just to avoid brake fade and overheating. Even if you are a serious, serious rider, that still wouldn't explain what is going on here. I've never had to replace the rotors on any of my bikes, because I'd usually replace the bike first after ~6 years or so.
At my current body weight, me and my bike (including all fixed attachments, i.e. front rack, fenders, dynamo head light, rear light, bell, phone holder, bottle cages but excluding water bottles or front bag) weigh 85 kg.
That's comparable to what I weigh: 72.5-73.0 kg body weight, 9.0 kg for the bike, add 2.5 kg for clothes and water and it is more or less the same amount. My fully weighs 13.4 kg.
I am now 6 kg heavier than I was 6 years ago, but am trying to shed about half of that by watching what I eat. If I were to return to my 2012 weight when my wife found me too skinny, I might save a whopping 12-15 minutes of climbing in a 160-190 km cycling day, about as much as one brief extra conbini stop.
I have the impression you are overthinking it when it comes to weight: you cycle 8,000 km per year, so you do a lot of sports compared to your average couch potato. Which means you are much, much more likely to be in good (cardiovascular) health. You are probably in very good shape even if you have more body fat than you perhaps should ideally.

When it comes to cycling performance, your back of the envelope calculation sounds plausible, but I would say that usually with weight loss comes improved performance (e. g. higher power output), so you would be “more faster” than your calculation suggests. However, if you ride for the joy of riding, that doesn't really matter — as long as you can keep up with your riding buddies ;)
 
Kangaeroo

Kangaeroo

Maximum Pace
Jan 24, 2018
181
140
63
63
#28
I am curious how my weight on my bike compares to others around here.
Enviously!
With my bike and work bag added, I am about 110 kg. I started cycling in about 2013 with the intention of losing weight (and would have weighed about the same as you at that time). In 2018, I have cycled more than 15,000 km and climbed over 100,000 m...and gained about 5 kg!!! I was much lighter when I started cycling, but obviously over-compensate with my calorie intake when I do ride.
 
O

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
472
226
73
42
#29
@Kangaeroo
Don't give up on losing weight, though: I weighed 86 kg a year-and-a-half ago, and I am at 72.5-73 kg (at 1.77-1.80 m). I lost my weight slowly, but steadily, making very simple adjustments to my diet and sports schedule.

Here are some things that worked for me:
(0) Cut all beer, chocolate, sodas and sweets. In the beginning this will be hard, but over time the yearning will wave. Now I share a bottle of beer with my wife every now and then, and I can really enjoy the taste.
(1) Decrease the portion size for dinner. It is much easier to go to bed a little hungry and wake up hungry (in time for breakfast!) than spend the day hungry.
(2) Fuel your rides correctly, and avoid to cut your calorie intake before a ride to burn more calories. Instead, focus on quality food the day before and recovery after. (I love to make banana milk shakes with maple syrup and cinnamon.) Fasting before rides is a recipe for overeating afterwards — unless you want to train for super long rides.
(3) Give yourself one to two days off per month where you can eat and drink all you want.

I have to say, I feel a lot better than at when I weighed ~15 kg more.
 
Kangaeroo

Kangaeroo

Maximum Pace
Jan 24, 2018
181
140
63
63
#30
Well done, @OreoCookie We are about the same height, so you are at what I'd consider an ideal weight (what I was when I stopped smoking!)
I'm deeply grateful you have faith in my ability to be as disciplined as you in changing my eating habits!
But I'm inspired to give it a try. It's a pain in my fat arse trying to get up those hills and I want to take some shots like @stu_kawagoe and @joewein have been posting recently.
 
Likes: wexford
joewein

joewein

Maximum Pace
Oct 25, 2011
2,470
968
133
Setagaya, Tokyo
joewein.net
#31
I was much lighter when I started cycling, but obviously over-compensate with my calorie intake when I do ride.
Same story here, though the weight is lower.

After going from 66 kg as a student to 78 kg as a sedentary family man, I got inspired by one of my brothers who had changed his diet. I started eating more vegetables, cut out a lot of carbohydrates and snacks and ate smaller portions. Together with some hiking and other exercise to build muscles, I worked my way down to 66 kg, losing 1 kg a month for the last six months, while I also started cycling again.

Then I started riding long distances, ate more for those long rides and the weight loss stopped: It's easy to out-eat almost any exercise short of Antarctica explorer type of calorie burn levels. When you ride 12+ hours a day you may think you're burning it all off, but you don't. And I often found myself with a big appetite the day after the ride. I also go on business trips, where I'm away from my bike and eat in restaurants every day. In the US portions can be ridiculous. Often, sharing a dish with another person would make more sense.

Gradually I have regained half of my original weight loss, but am determined not to become overweight again (my BMI is in the normal range).

@OreoCookie, excellent advice on how to eat better. I have no problem giving up cookies and a tiny bit chocolate goes a long way for me, but wine and cheese are still a temptation (off the bike) ;)
 
Likes: Kangaeroo
Justin

Justin

Speeding Up
Nov 12, 2016
35
25
28
37
#32
You may have heard my cursing across the greater Tokyo area a moment ago as I was fitting these bastard Conti 5000s onto my tubeless-ready Reynolds rims. I’m looking at my ravaged hands and wondering if it’s time to rethink my “no tyre lever” policy. Damn all tubeless-ready rims to hell.

 
O

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
472
226
73
42
#33
Well done, @OreoCookie We are about the same height, so you are at what I'd consider an ideal weight (what I was when I stopped smoking!)
I'm deeply grateful you have faith in my ability to be as disciplined as you in changing my eating habits!
You can do it! Seriously.

The science of nutrition is a bit of a mess. I looked into it, I am a scientist after all, but there is so much non-sense out there where gurus want to market “their” diet. The two most common ones are keto (high protein, high fat, low carbohydrates) and high carb (high carbohydrates, lower protein, low fat). It doesn't help that most studies are limited to finding correlations and their results are quite nuanced.

What I found works for me are the following simple ideas:

(0) Food is not your enemy, it is a joy of life

I can't overstress this, food is one of the best things in life to me. Aim for a better diet as in “everyday eating habits” not “extreme short-term change of behavior”.

(1) You can only improve intentionally what you measure

I should have added one more thing to the list: weigh yourself every morning. If you don't have a scale, get a scale that also measures the body fat percentage. Weigh yourself after your morning toilet, write them down (I use Apple's Health app, but there are many apps that do a better job). Don't look at the daily fluctuations, look at the weekly or monthly averages.

(2) The law of conservation of energy

Your energy intake needs to be lower than the energy expended, doh! — and it doesn't matter much what food group you get the calories from. One of the most surprising things I have learnt about the human metabolism is that most of the calories are expended to just stay alive, and how comparatively little energy is spent during exercise. That makes it very easy to fall for the temptation to overeat after exercising. Keep in mind that your metabolic rate at rest adapts to a lower calorie intake, and at least in my case, there was a delay between the lowering of my metabolic rate and my perception of hunger catching up.

Take a long-term approach, it is ok if it takes you 1, 2 or even 3 years. Your goal is not to win the Tour de France, but to participate in the Tour de Life for as long as possible and as healthily as possible.

(3) Don't expect perfection

You are not a machine. Last year during the Christmas season, I gained some weight. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why: I had lots of bōnenkais, Christmas parties, New Year, shinnenkais, etc. So I ate and drank. I got handmade Christmas cookies from my sister and my mom (sooo good). On the other hand, it was cold and snowed, so I rode less. I didn't stress out and quickly lost the weight as soon as I was able to ride again.

I found that the TrainerRoad Podcast helped me quite a bit to better understand the nuances of good nutrition, especially during rides (that's where I took (2) from). When you listen to it, keep in mind that the hosts are extreme cases, because training is part of their day job as well as their hobby. We don't make money from cycling, and we need to balance it with our various duties (family, kids, work, etc.).

The nice side benefit is that you teach these skills to your children if you live them yourself.

PS One more thing: your “ideal/natural” body weight differs from person to person. Under no circumstances should you start comparing yourself to Japanese men of similar size. According to Strava several of my riding buddies are in the 55-64 kg weight bracket. I would only reach that if I underwent chemotherapy.
 
Last edited:
Likes: Kangaeroo
O

OreoCookie

Maximum Pace
Dec 2, 2017
472
226
73
42
#34
@OreoCookie, excellent advice on how to eat better. I have no problem giving up cookies and a tiny bit chocolate goes a long way for me, but wine and cheese are still a temptation (off the bike) ;)
Oh yeah, same here. But I feel like my cravings have changed, I am content with less and can resist better. Half a bottle of beer can be more than enough. Plus, it made it easier for my wife to lose all those pregnancy pounds, too.
 
joewein

joewein

Maximum Pace
Oct 25, 2011
2,470
968
133
Setagaya, Tokyo
joewein.net
#35
You may have heard my cursing across the greater Tokyo area a moment ago as I was fitting these bastard Conti 5000s onto my tubeless-ready Reynolds rims. I’m looking at my ravaged hands and wondering if it’s time to rethink my “no tyre lever” policy. Damn all tubeless-ready rims to hell.
I also had a really hard time the first time I had to fix a puncture with my tubeless-ready Velocity Blunt SL rims. Later I learnt the proper technique and never had a problem with my same tire/rim combination again.

With tubeless ready rims, when you try to get the tire bead over the edge of the rim, it is very important to create as much slack as possible for the bead by pushing it into the center of the rim, where the rim is deepest, for as much of the circumference of the wheel as possible. Start at the opposite end of the tire, away from where you want to do the lifting. Squeeze the tire to the center so that it can move a couple of mm closer towards where you're trying to lift it off the rim or onto the rim.

Do not simply rely on tire levers to apply enough force without first creating enough slack as doing so may damage your beads.
 
Justin

Justin

Speeding Up
Nov 12, 2016
35
25
28
37
#36
I also had a really hard time the first time I had to fix a puncture with my tubeless-ready Velocity Blunt SL rims. Later I learnt the proper technique and never had a problem with my same tire/rim combination again.

With tubeless ready rims, when you try to get the tire bead over the edge of the rim, it is very important to create as much slack as possible for the bead by pushing it into the center of the rim, where the rim is deepest, for as much of the circumference of the wheel as possible. Start at the opposite end of the tire, away from where you want to do the lifting. Squeeze the tire to the center so that it can move a couple of mm closer towards where you're trying to lift it off the rim or onto the rim.

Do not simply rely on tire levers to apply enough force without first creating enough slack as doing so may damage your beads.
Yep, I did all of that, but it didn’t make the process a whole lot easier. For some reason, just getting the old tyres into the deep part of the rim was a hellishly difficult experience. It was almost as though they’d become stuck fast on the elevated ledges. It required several minutes of massaging, maneuvering, and finally, brute force. When putting the new tyres on, I had the fitted part right in the deep, central rim channel, but that still only made it possible to get about 90 percent of the bead easily over the hook. The last 10 percent took some serious blood, sweat and tears. Phew. Hoping I don’t get a flat anytime soon.
 
Kangaeroo

Kangaeroo

Maximum Pace
Jan 24, 2018
181
140
63
63
#37
You can do it! Seriously.

The science of nutrition is a bit of a mess. I looked into it, I am a scientist after all, but there is so much non-sense out there where gurus want to market “their” diet. The two most common ones are keto (high protein, high fat, low carbohydrates) and high carb (high carbohydrates, lower protein, low fat). It doesn't help that most studies are limited to finding correlations and their results are quite nuanced.

What I found works for me are the following simple ideas:

(0) Food is not your enemy, it is a joy of life

I can't overstress this, food is one of the best things in life to me. Aim for a better diet as in “everyday eating habits” not “extreme short-term change of behavior”.

(1) You can only improve intentionally what you measure

I should have added one more thing to the list: weigh yourself every morning. If you don't have a scale, get a scale that also measures the body fat percentage. Weigh yourself after your morning toilet, write them down (I use Apple's Health app, but there are many apps that do a better job). Don't look at the daily fluctuations, look at the weekly or monthly averages.

(2) The law of conservation of energy

Your energy intake needs to be lower than the energy expended, doh! — and it doesn't matter much what food group you get the calories from. One of the most surprising things I have learnt about the human metabolism is that most of the calories are expended to just stay alive, and how comparatively little energy is spent during exercise. That makes it very easy to fall for the temptation to overeat after exercising. Keep in mind that your metabolic rate at rest adapts to a lower calorie intake, and at least in my case, there was a delay between the lowering of my metabolic rate and my perception of hunger catching up.

Take a long-term approach, it is ok if it takes you 1, 2 or even 3 years. Your goal is not to win the Tour de France, but to participate in the Tour de Life for as long as possible and as healthily as possible.

(3) Don't expect perfection

You are not a machine. Last year during the Christmas season, I gained some weight. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why: I had lots of bōnenkais, Christmas parties, New Year, shinnenkais, etc. So I ate and drank. I got handmade Christmas cookies from my sister and my mom (sooo good). On the other hand, it was cold and snowed, so I rode less. I didn't stress out and quickly lost the weight as soon as I was able to ride again.

I found that the TrainerRoad Podcast helped me quite a bit to better understand the nuances of good nutrition, especially during rides (that's where I took (2) from). When you listen to it, keep in mind that the hosts are extreme cases, because training is part of their day job as well as their hobby. We don't make money from cycling, and we need to balance it with our various duties (family, kids, work, etc.).

The nice side benefit is that you teach these skills to your children if you live them yourself.

PS One more thing: your “ideal/natural” body weight differs from person to person. Under no circumstances should you start comparing yourself to Japanese men of similar size. According to Strava several of my riding buddies are in the 55-64 kg weight bracket. I would only reach that if I underwent chemotherapy.
Wow, wow, wow! Thank you!
 
Kangaeroo

Kangaeroo

Maximum Pace
Jan 24, 2018
181
140
63
63
#38
Same story here, though the weight is lower.

After going from 66 kg as a student to 78 kg as a sedentary family man, I got inspired by one of my brothers who had changed his diet. I started eating more vegetables, cut out a lot of carbohydrates and snacks and ate smaller portions. Together with some hiking and other exercise to build muscles, I worked my way down to 66 kg, losing 1 kg a month for the last six months, while I also started cycling again.

Then I started riding long distances, ate more for those long rides and the weight loss stopped: It's easy to out-eat almost any exercise short of Antarctica explorer type of calorie burn levels. When you ride 12+ hours a day you may think you're burning it all off, but you don't. And I often found myself with a big appetite the day after the ride. I also go on business trips, where I'm away from my bike and eat in restaurants every day. In the US portions can be ridiculous. Often, sharing a dish with another person would make more sense.

Gradually I have regained half of my original weight loss, but am determined not to become overweight again (my BMI is in the normal range).

@OreoCookie, excellent advice on how to eat better. I have no problem giving up cookies and a tiny bit chocolate goes a long way for me, but wine and cheese are still a temptation (off the bike) ;)
Thanks, too, @joewein
This reconfirms for me that weight loss is almost all directly related to calorie intake.
Good luck with staying in the normal range!
 
joewein

joewein

Maximum Pace
Oct 25, 2011
2,470
968
133
Setagaya, Tokyo
joewein.net
#39
Yep, I did all of that, but it didn’t make the process a whole lot easier. For some reason, just getting the old tyres into the deep part of the rim was a hellishly difficult experience.
The fit tends to be tighter on tubeless rims, as they try hard to prevent tires from blowing off the rim without support from a tube.

Out of curiosity, were you running them tubeless or with tubes? What rim tape (vinyl or textile)? When I was running my tires tubeless they kind of stuck to the bead seat due to the sealant I was using, but they weren't too stubborn. The tire will slide more easily with vinyl rim tape (required for tubeless) instead of textile tape which can be used for setups with tubes.
 
Likes: Justin
Justin

Justin

Speeding Up
Nov 12, 2016
35
25
28
37
#40
The fit tends to be tighter on tubeless rims, as they try hard to prevent tires from blowing off the rim without support from a tube.

Out of curiosity, were you running them tubeless or with tubes? What rim tape (vinyl or textile)? When I was running my tires tubeless they kind of stuck to the bead seat due to the sealant I was using, but they weren't too stubborn. The tire will slide more easily with vinyl rim tape (required for tubeless) instead of textile tape which can be used for setups with tubes.
I'm running a clincher/tube set up with vinyl tape. I can't help wondering if a little bit of the rubber from the tyre had melted during the summer months and stuck the tyre to the bead seat. It seems unlikely, but who knows. I got pretty frustrated, but not frustrated enough to do something as dumb as this guy