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Tech Cassettes and chains compatibility

? I plan to do some 30-40 km straight climbing, avg at 7-8
Thinking about it, are you sure there are climbs of that magnitude in Europe? Even if you start at sea level, 40km of climbing with an average of 7% puts you at 2800m elevation gain, which is higher than Stelvio pass.
 
Well, the avg gradient was just me taking one look at Strava and approximating it, so it's probably not that steep overall. The 2 routes I have in mind in particular would have a) about 1400m elevation on some 32 km and b) about 1500m on some 70 km (the first 25 km or so being flat). They start of at sea level, immediately hitting first mountain chain next to the sea, have a slight descent part only to hit more climbing further inland. So it wasn't "straight" either, but close enough... Some serious hairpins I've seen, very much looking forward to it
 
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30T is likely to max out your RD.

Note sure about the limit of the short cage RD but RD-6700-GS / RD-6800-GS handle as much as 32T in a double (up to 30T in a triple).
 
Note sure about the limit of the short cage RD but RD-6700-GS / RD-6800-GS handle as much as 32T in a double (up to 30T in a triple).

Short cage is officially 28T. You can see this with the Dura Ace stuff; the rear mech is a short cage system, and the maximum cassette size is 28T. The documentation states that the maximum size is 28T.
 
Even if the efficiency might suffer, Shimano rd's mostly allow 2-3 more than stated maximum size. Hard to recommend but pretty much fact.
I'm planning on 36x25 as mountain gearing to minimize range between gear changes. SRAM has a 11-26 cassette as well.
 
Actually, I've just found a straight 30k climb with some 1600m total elevation right here in Kanto. Fujiyoshida to Mt Fuji sta. 5. I'm thinking of hitting it this golden week. I might even try it on 34-25 just to test what it feels like, then change the cassette and go up and test it again. I hope that road to sta. 5 is open to traffic even outside the July-August climbing season?

I'll check the RD specs before upgrading to 30, if I decide to do so, but right now I think 11-28 is most sensible overall.
 
@luka, your planned Fujiyoshida-Fuji 5th stage climb currently is my biggest climb on Strava (1400 m). You can get an even longer continuous climb by starting from further back and lower down at Tsuru, heading up Rt139 to Fujiyoshida first before following Subaru line up to the 5th stage, since Tsuru to Fujiyoshida gives you another 15 km or so of steady uphill. You'll be climbing from 500 to 2300 m, i.e. 1800 m uphill.

Yes, the road to the 5th stage is open outside the climbing season, but it depends on the weather. If there's snow at the higher elevations they might close it at any of the intermediate gates on the road (e.g. 3rd stage, 4th stage). According to this page there are no bus services to the 5th stage between early November and late April, so one would expect the road to be open again by Golden Week / May. I remember driving up there by car many years ago in May and still seeing piles of snow by the roadside.
 
@luka another good ride with two loooong climbs is this one


You head out past Okutama, climbing the rather long road (must be over 30km) and descent the amazing Yanagisawa pass

When you get to Enzan you then climb from about 400m to 2200m (if I remember rightly). You can then either head back down to Enzan for a train home or ride home. I did it with @saibot last summer and it's a nice ride.
(Btw, the road is a dead end at the top of Mt.Kinpu.... Well not quite a dead end but it turns into a rocky path only suitable for MTBs).
 
Short cage is officially 28T. You can see this with the Dura Ace stuff; the rear mech is a short cage system, and the maximum cassette size is 28T. The documentation states that the maximum size is 28T.

They say that but you can "Just" get away with 30T on the short cage. That's what I rode for my first trip to Japan & the rest of that summer after advice from this forum. You just have to get the B screw right to avoid fouling, it's still a close fit though.
 
They say that but you can "Just" get away with 30T on the short cage. That's what I rode for my first trip to Japan & the rest of that summer after advice from this forum. You just have to get the B screw right to avoid fouling, it's still a close fit though.

Yeah, you can get away with loads of unofficial stuff on a bike, but 'officially', 28T is the limit.

When you say you need to get the B-screw right, do you mean you had to screw it in quite far to get the mech to sit back and down, so the top jockey wheel didn't clip the 30T when shifting up?
 
@joewein @leicaman thanks for those suggestions. I must say I am not a big fan of climbing, especially just for the sake of climbing. What's happening is I have scheduled holidays around Kawaguchi lake for GW and (hopefully) in Europe in Aug/Sept. Now, only as one part of that will I be engaging in these climbing routes; mainly because I don't see myself ever going up Mt Fuji in my life again if I miss it this year (I've never been up there as it is completely unappealing for hiking and/or banzaing the dawn, but not necessarily so off season without the crowds and on the bike, especially since I'm at the foot of it holidaying as it is), and I was taken in by the scenery of those climbs in Europe which also happen to be very close to where I'll be located.

So, climbs, OK if they have all the surrounding circumstances in their favor, but not something I'd get too excited over on its own (at least not yet, I understand it's something of an acquired taste). But will definitely have your suggestions in mind.
 
(I've never been up there as it is completely unappealing for hiking and/or banzaing the dawn, but not necessarily so off season without the crowds and on the bike.

Agree on the crowds - especially inside the mountain huts and on the last km before the peak. However, the views you can get from up there are fantastic. The moonscape up there, the visible curvature of the earth, the totally different weather, being above the clouds - it all adds up to an otherworldly experience. I've cycled Subaru line twice and I've hiked to the top twice (though I've never combined the two).

So, climbs, OK if they have all the surrounding circumstances in their favor, but not something I'd get too excited over on its own (at least not yet, I understand it's something of an acquired taste).

As a cyclist, hills are your friend :) Ride them often and they make you a better cyclist.

They keep you honest: On a flat course you may get away with drafting behind other people or getting helped along by a tail wind or passing vehicles, but when you work your way up a mountain it's just your legs versus the hill.

Anyway, enjoy the ride!
 
Yeah, you can get away with loads of unofficial stuff on a bike, but 'officially', 28T is the limit.

When you say you need to get the B-screw right, do you mean you had to screw it in quite far to get the mech to sit back and down, so the top jockey wheel didn't clip the 30T when shifting up?

That's right, the top jockey wheel was Veeery close to the 30T even when adjusted. I always breathed a sigh of relief when the shift went ok. I got the 30 as a last minute fix just before my trip as I was on a 53-39. Now I have a compact the 28 is plenty.
 
For climbing I use a 12-30T and a short cage 6700 Ultegra derailleur. They work fine together, but mine is the old 10-speed.
 
It seems like Ultegra 6800 cassettes do not offer 11-30 option at all. A quick search of new and used ones only turned 23s, 25s, 28s and 32s. So my dilemma of 28 or 30 seems solved for me by Shimano.

I have another related quick question though. I have an indoor training only wheel, but it's got a 10 gears cassette. I wanted to sell it, but since I'll be buying a new cassette, I'm thinking of fitting my present 11-25 11 speed cassette on it once I get a new 11-28 installed. That would be the most efficient way to use all the parts, without anything going to waste (except maybe for the trainer wheel's current 10s cassette).

My question is: will there be any problems in fitting an 11s cassette on a wheel that came with 10s? The wheel is Shimano R500, bought with everything set already, and I have no idea about hubs etc.
 
1. Just get 28T and stop worrying about it.

2. You can not put an 11speed cassette on a 10 speed freebody, unless that freebody is a Mavic one.
 
1. Just get 28T and stop worrying about it.

Actually, that's what I plan to do. It just seemed interesting/strange that 11-30 options was nowhere to be found. I wondered if it was just my lack of research or did Shimano purposefully drop that ratio for some reason?

2. You can not put an 11speed cassette on a 10 speed freebody

Damn! I'm stuck with an extra wheel I can't use anymore, plus a cassette... But it did feel to good to be doable kinda double win fix, if everything were just interchangeable... I guess not.
 
Actually, that's what I plan to do. It just seemed interesting/strange that 11-30 options was nowhere to be found. I wondered if it was just my lack of research or did Shimano purposefully drop that ratio for some reason?

Yeah, interesting point. Dunno!

Damn! I'm stuck with an extra wheel I can't use anymore, plus a cassette... But it did feel to good to be doable kinda double win fix, if everything were just interchangeable... I guess not.

You are not stuck with it;

-Sell it
-Take it apart and put it back together again 20 times, and become a wheel building god.
-Buy a front wheel, full groupset, frame, bars, stem, seat, seatpost, bar tape, Garmin, bottle cages tyres and tubes, and build a new bike out of it.
 
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