Campy Decline? Gruppo survey

What Gruoupset are you currently running?

  • Campy Super Record/Record

    Votes: 3 11.1%
  • Shimano Di2

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Shimano

    Votes: 17 63.0%
  • Campy

    Votes: 4 14.8%
  • Sram

    Votes: 5 18.5%

  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .

Wolfman

Speeding Up
Jul 31, 2007
631
18
38
Suginamiku
#1
I was reading my new monthly magazine, Cycle Sport (I'm taking a break from Cycling Plus for a bit), learning about obscure European professional cyclists and their training regimes etc.

One of the articles talks about the decline of Campy. As I remember the article, only 4 pro tour teams are now using Campy, with most teams now using either Shimano Di2 or SRAM Red.

Campy did a lot of research into electronic shifting systems in the early days, but instead opted to dedicate most efforts to the 11 speed system. It's an interesting strategic choice, but pro teams are apparently hungry for electronic systems. This is seen as the main rationale for the decline in usage.

SRAM has made big headway, with the three podium winners in 2009 (Lance, Contador and Schleck) all running on Sram Red. I also switched from Ultegra to Sram Red a couple of years ago - I like the style, it's lighter, shifting has no problems. I'm not yet seeing Contador like performance, though that could be diet related....the Japanese diet is very fish oriented ;)

My question therefore is:

What gruppo are TCC members running?

Do you have any plans to upgrade or replace your current existing gruppo, and if so, why?

Do you regret your gruppo selection?
 

TOM

Maximum Pace
#2
thinking about switching back to Shimano...

I'm using both Campagnolo (Super Record 10) and Shimano (Dura, Ultegra and 105) and I'm quite happy with all four systems (yes I've got 4 bikes).

Never used SRAM but Lee's description below sounds very tempting...

The reason I would like to change from Campy to Shimano (or who knows to SRAM?) is that my Super Record is for 10-speed and the Campagnolo engineers seem to have abandoned the 10-speed concept for its higher-ranked groupos...putting a Veloce cassette with plastic spacers on a Super Record groupset just isn't pro IMHO. Rather than purchasing an overly expensive 11-speed Super Record, I think I will go for Dura Ace again or - maybe better - for the electronic Ultegra about to be launched (or so I heard).
 

baribari

Maximum Pace
May 28, 2010
432
80
48
Fukushima
#4
Road bikes are already overpriced enough without Campy.

Just like Japanese lenses usurped German ones, Shimano is cheaper and equal in quality to Campy (arguable I suppose), and the competition from SRAM means that all three get better and better.
 

Phil

Maximum Pace
#5
I've ridden Sram and Shimano, but now I'm staying with 6600/7800 Shimano (which I think shifts a little better than the latest generation and parts are increasingly available used).

Sram was okay, but I didn't like the shifting (especially the big throw and the fact you'd shift down a cog if you tried to shift up when already in the biggest cog), ergonomics, or quality (it just seemed not quite up to par with Shimano quality, especially cassettes/chains/FD. Granted, this was lower-end Rival...) It is nice to have the 3rd choice though, definitely think it's going to push the other two harder now.

Campy I never considered just because of the cost premium here in Japan compared to Shimano. If I lived in Europe, I probably would have.

When Di2 came out, I thought it was daft and gimmicky, but *every single* report I've read from people who've actually ridden it have raved about it, and I'm now convinced it is the future. Think Campy lost the plot a little with 11-speed; I know everyone has said this with every additional rear cog over the years, but I really think 11 gears *is* one too many; unnecessary and pushing the limits given the physical constraints of frame geometry/hub flange spacing. I do remember when they had prototype electronic shifting in the pro peloton--seems ages ago now.

Going to stick with 7800 for a while, but if they come out with an electronic Ultegra in, say, 2 or 3 years, and the price comes down (a lot!), I might consider it.
 

fredstaple

Speeding Up
Nov 1, 2009
198
1
38
Puerto de la Santa Maria
#7
Campy

I ran Suntour for years and about 8 years ago finaly went to Campagnolo. I run mostly Chorus level with a 10 speed groupo. I am very happy with Campy, but this may be influenced by my desire to own Campy since I got into cycling in the mid 70s. The Campy equiped Masi that was featured Breaking Away" was the bike of my dreams; there was a guy in my hometown that had a Record equiped Schwinn Parmount and where I came from, that was the top of the line. I could not afford it at the time, but those bikes where the penicle for me and since then I always wanted a bike with a Campagnolo groupo.

I find it a little difficult to not be able to go into a shop and have a nice selection of Campy gear, this was true in the US too. But with internet, it is easy enough to get replacement parts pretty quickly. Even with the switch from 10 to 11 speed gear, there seems to be a good supply of 10 speed Campy gear. I run Centuar cassettes, so finding Chorus or Record cassettes is not an issue (there are a number of them on Ebay right now).

I don't think Campagnolo is on the decline, I just think there is a lot more competition in the market place with SRAM and things are still sorting themselves out. Campy teams are running their electronic version this year and I believe it will be available to consumers next year. Campy will then have an edge with 11 gears and electronic shifting, however, if Shimano undercuts them with price with the electronic Ultegra, then they may be hurting. 11 gears alone is not reason enough to go Campy.

It will be interesting to see when SRAM jumps into the electronic market, they have been very aggressive with getting thier gear into the road market place, but will have to get an electronic groupo to keep up their momentum. Electronic SRAM may also eliminate some of the complaints with the shifters that seem to bother some people.

I will have a delima next time I get a new road bike. While happy with Campy, I have been impressed with the range of gears available with a SRAM set up. Being interchangabe with Shimano wheels is also a plus. As in one of my recent posts, the Apex group has a lot of options and Cycling Plus gave it the nod over both Centuar and 105.

I don't think I will go electronic unless it really drops in price. I also worry about forgetting to charge the battery. I have a hard enough time remebering to charge my IPOD, what will happen if I was out on a ride and the battery died.
 
Oct 15, 2010
669
10
38
#8
Veloce

I recently got my first road bike with Veloce and like it. Only had Shimano on my mountain bikes before and was a little hesitant, but currently have no regrets.
 

m o b

Speeding Up
Jun 22, 2008
341
23
38
Bremen
cyclitis.wordpress.com
#9
Hm

I use mainly Shimano on my bikes. In 2009 I upgraded from Ultegra 6600 to Ultegra 6700, mainly because all cables can be routed below the bar tape which looks much better and because the capacity is larger which allows for usage of 12 - 28 rear cogs.

However, the shifting of the 6700 is not as smooth as the 6600 series. Somtimes, when downshifting, I can swing the lever to the very left but nothing happens. Then I need to release the lever and try again and normally it works. It feels like the lever is missing the rachet. This I find very annoying and some German cycling journals have reported about this quality issue as well.

I am currently building up another bike on which I will the old 6600 group.

My Cannondale Bad Boy comes equipped with a SRAM X9 that also works very nicely. I am not a big fan of rapdi fire shifters but for short to mid range rides they are OK.

It is interesting to note the difference to older groups as well. On my older Peugeot bikes I have a Shimano Golden Arrow group (the predesccessor of the 105 from the Eighties) and a complete Huret group with a triple in the front. Non-indexed. But all of them shift just wonderful and smoothly and there is hardly a difference to the shifting of the Ultegra. It is also possible to shift while pedaling which led me to the question what special cog and chain designs are really worth?

Of course it is better to ride with an Ultegra, as older groups have only 5,6,7 or 8 speed and no STI levers.

I never rode a Camagnolo group. But sure, I would like to give it a try. Personally I feel that Di2 will be the future and that prices will come down. The development we will see is similar to games consoles, where Sony fights against MS to create more processor speed and graphics (10 to 11 speed) while Nintendo comes out with something completely new: Wii. It is just like William Gibson remarked: "The future is already here. It is just not equally distributed."
 
Sep 2, 2009
5
0
0
#10
Dura Ace on my road bike, upgraded from 105.

Really noticed the different with the Dura Ace. Can't really fault it. The only thing I don't like about it is sometimes when I go to downshift on the rear, I accidentally push both levers in at the same time, and this messes up the shifting.

Not a big deal, and more due to my technique than anything else.

So yeah, Dura Ace on the road bike. Wicked stuff.

On my mountain bike, I have XT/XTR mix, which again is awesome. I use Gripshift as shifters, and that work great with the Shimano stuff.

BMX is obviously single speed, and I have used all sorts with that, including Profile, G-Sport, Shimano, BSD, Tree, Hoffman, Mutiny, etc etc. Much of a muchness, and rated only on un-snapability.

Not tried Campag, and don't have any reason to, but it looks aright (apart from the brake / shifters, which I really don't like the look of for some reason).
 

trad

Maximum Pace
Dec 4, 2006
393
30
48
Tokyo
#12
how about a combo... been riding with a few Japanese riders who use campy brifters and shimano drivetrain. (they attached a small pulley right before rear derailer).
 

m o b

Speeding Up
Jun 22, 2008
341
23
38
Bremen
cyclitis.wordpress.com
#13
Shimano Campy Combination

As far as I know you can use Campagnolo shifters with Shimano deraileurs and brakes but not vise versa. One reason is that the Shimano brakes can be realeased at the brakes , whereas the Campy brakes are released at the shifters. So if you use Shimano shifters with Campy brakes you cannot release the brakes to exchange the wheels.

The general pro opinion is obviously that you should not mix groups, even from the same manufacturer. Nagai-San from Positivo told me that he also need to exchange the brakes and the crank set when he upgraded my Cervelo from 6600 to 6700. I kept the crank set as I dislile the hollow cranksets from Shimano and there were no issues at all.
 

AlanW

Maximum Pace
Jan 30, 2007
1,214
435
103
Tokyo
#14
Shimano 7800 Dura Ace here, and 6500 Ultegra before that.
Tens of thousands of faultless shifts, well modulated and powerful brakes. Smooth and quiet drivetrain. Pretty hard wearing as long as the chain is changed before it's worn. It really does everything I want, and does it very well. I don't see myself changing to another brand.

ps. ARSis....[chortle] What on earth were they thinking?
 

FarEast

Maximum Pace
May 25, 2009
5,528
538
193
Yokohama
#16
As far as I know you can use Campagnolo shifters with Shimano deraileurs and brakes but not vise versa. One reason is that the Shimano brakes can be realeased at the brakes , whereas the Campy brakes are released at the shifters. So if you use Shimano shifters with Campy brakes you cannot release the brakes to exchange the wheels.

The general pro opinion is obviously that you should not mix groups, even from the same manufacturer. Nagai-San from Positivo told me that he also need to exchange the brakes and the crank set when he upgraded my Cervelo from 6600 to 6700. I kept the crank set as I dislile the hollow cranksets from Shimano and there were no issues at all.
Incorrect, the cable pull on Shimano and Campanolo is totally different. You can however buy a 3rd party pully that you install in Campagnolo or Shimano shifters that corrects this but as standard the to groupsets are not interchangable.

Also chain width in the 11 speed groupsets will not fit Shimano so I wouldn't even try.

SRAM, Mircoshift and Shimano are all fully compatible.

Hmmm sorry to say this but I think Nagai-san was out to make a quick buck from you as even Shimano state that 105 - 5700 Ultegra - 6700 and DuraAce 7900 are fully interchangable and they have done this to allow riders to gradually upgrade parts without having to fork out a lot of money. (this has been Shimano's policy for a long time!)
 

Sikochi

Maximum Pace
Sep 13, 2010
1,149
50
68
Kochi
#17
As in one of my recent posts, the Apex group has a lot of options and Cycling Plus gave it the nod over both Centuar and 105.
I wouldn`t pay to much attention to the article, as they gave Apex the vote for no other reason than it offers the 11-32 cassette. Performance wise, it had the worst review. One of the reasons why I went with 5700 105 was with a view to swapping to Ui2 when it comes out, but as I have no problems with it, it seems a shame to retire a perfectly good groupset.

My Cannondale Bad Boy comes equipped with a SRAM X9 that also works very nicely.
My wife`s bike has X7 shifters and I`m about to upgrade them to the X9 as the X7 aren`t up to scratch.

'Bona' and 'Arsis' though? LOL.
Just imagine going round saying `I had bona on my bike` or `my arsis good` etc... Or for the female riders, `Does my arsis look big on this?`

Shimano state that 105 - 5700 Ultegra - 6700 and DuraAce 7900 are fully interchangable and they have done this to allow riders to gradually upgrade parts without having to fork out a lot of money. (this has been Shimano's policy for a long time!)
I always thought Shimano`s policy was to state that stuff wasn`t interchangeable so that you had to buy a whole new groupset whereas the reality was it could be chopped and changed without problem.
 

Phil

Maximum Pace
#18
Hmmm sorry to say this but I think Nagai-san was out to make a quick buck from you as even Shimano state that 105 - 5700 Ultegra - 6700 and DuraAce 7900 are fully interchangable
Yeah, but if you read Michael's post, he was going from 6600 to 6700, different thing. The brake pull is slightly different from the 6600 generation to 6700, which means that you lose some braking performance using 6600 calipers with 6700 shifters (supposedly, I haven't tried it myself).
 

FarEast

Maximum Pace
May 25, 2009
5,528
538
193
Yokohama
#20
Shimano release a "Tree Graphic" showing you what parts are interchangable and what isn't the only issue going from 6600 to 6700 was the front derailer. I also went from 6600 to 7900 no problem with the breaking performance.

In regards to Nagai-san.... Im only going from what MOB told me while he was going through the process of the upgrade with the shop. Possibly there was some information that was lost in translation butI always felt that he was on the more expensive side for parts and services while erring on the side of caution that encouraged sales, again this is from MOB where yet again some information may have been lost in translation.