Arakawa sabotage

Justin

Cruising
Nov 12, 2016
13
14
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#1
Did anyone who was out on the Arakawa on the weekend spot the locals who were picking up all the nails that some *******/s had spread along the cycling road?


I haven’t seen it, but a friend said the TV news has been running panel discussions this morning to imply that cyclists have brought this situation on themselves by behaving dangerously and flying along there at an average of ... 20kmh!
 
#2
I feel like the majority of people who use the Arakawa path are cycling for one reason or another and nails don't discriminate between roadies and kids riding to baseball or football practice. Not to mention all the homeless people who ride bikes down there and the salarymen who commute on it. If they were trying to target a specific group of people then that's a pretty wide net to cast. My guess is it's just an arsehole who has nothing better to do.
 

kiwisimon

Maximum Pace
Dec 14, 2006
2,634
451
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#3
the TV news has been running panel discussions this morning to imply that cyclists have brought this situation on themselves by behaving dangerously and flying along there at an average of ... 20kmh!
Maybe they are right. I disagree with the action but a lot of road cyclists have a sense of entitlement on the "cycling paths"

The Arakawa is a multi-use path and road cyclists wanting to go fast should be out on the roads with cars, trucks ,buses and the like. The pro keirin and road cyclists train on roads why not the wannabe pros? I have never heard a single good reason why people need to ride fast on a multi use path.
 
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Justin

Cruising
Nov 12, 2016
13
14
13
37
#4
Agreed, it was an incredibly stupid, dangerous thing to do, and it could have caused an injury to just about anyone who uses the path.

But whatever the motivation and whoever the intended target, this has kicked off a big discussion on Twitter (I haven’t checked other social media) about the “long-running sense of aggravation” caused by roadies behaving badly ... and everyone else.
 

leicaman

Maximum Pace
Sep 20, 2012
2,475
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Asakadai, Saitama
#6
Maybe they are right. I disagree with the action but a lot of road cyclists have a sense of entitlement on the "cycling paths"

The Arakawa is a multi-use path and road cyclists wanting to go fast should be out on the roads with cars, trucks ,buses and the like. The pro keirin and road cyclists train on roads why not the wannabe pros? I have never heard a single good reason why people need to ride fast on a multi use path.
How often do you ride on the Arakawa? I ride there most days and have yet to see a road cyclist cycling dangerously near other users. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but any time I’ve ridden down there, the cyclists seem to give others a very wide berth and slow down, too. I live up in Saitama so the path up there is very lightly used. I only see a few other people on there in the mornings. Also, the road is so wide, two dumper trucks can fit side by side on the road. The Tamagawa path is a different story as it’s only about 2m wide (In the places I’ve ridden).

And as for pros not using the Arakawa, why then do most of the KOMs on the segments I ride, belong to them??
 

kiwisimon

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Dec 14, 2006
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#7
@leicaman Now? I never ride the cycling paths in Saitama and my experience was typically Omiya north towards Ogose and Ogawa areas and beyond. I presume that you usually cycle on the path at a good clip and are not a young parent with children learning to ride their bikes on the paths. nor are you a geriatric with slow reactions, poor hearing and a slightly different perspective on speed. I'm not yet there myself but have seen a former racer now flinch when a quicker than himself bike gets within two meters of him. I know you run as well but again your perspective is different from most users who are complaining. Perhaps down river the greater density of people means more problems.
Just because your peer group aren't being dorks it doesn't mean there aren't a few dorks tarnishing the image of road cyclists.
Re: pros getting Strava segments on the cycling path, I think you just illustrated the problem and as sponsored riders they need their butts kicked by team management. Wouldn't take much for a journo to link their names and strava results to a story about "trouble". Not sure that's the kind of publicity corporations want.

I know up near Kawajima there are bugger all people but this is nuts.
https://www.strava.com/segments/3438988
21,000 times this stretch has been ridden flat out and a bunch of times at max speeds faster than cars are legally allowed to go on any road except expressways. Can you really seriously claim there is no problem riding that path at over 60 kmph? Pro or not, the guys a moron.

I still think cyclists training should be out on the roads and making the roads safer for everyone with their presence. as always YMMV
 
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luka

Maximum Pace
Jan 13, 2015
833
411
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#8
cyclists behavior aside, this topic is about someone attempting mass murder, in a random and indiscriminate fashion. nothing can justify that
 
May 22, 2007
3,564
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Kawasaki
halffastcycling.com
#9
Saw this on the TV this morning, too. It was curious that all the talking heads were dressed in Lycra™, helmets and sunglasses, rather than baseball uniforms or 20-year-old overalls.

I seem to recall that a couple of years ago someone (was it @WhiteGiant?) got a flat from something similar - nails sprinkled right in the middle of one of the Arakawa slow-u-down gates.

@luka, ’mass murder’ is probably overstating the case for the prosecution. I'll allow attempted aggravated assault and criminal damage.

Once upon a time there were lots of "20 km/h" speed limit (speed challenge?) signs along the right bank Arakawa psyclepath. They seem to have disappeared. I wonder who took them down...
 
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#11
I still think cyclists training should be out on the roads and making the roads safer for everyone with their presence. as always YMMV
I feel like this is a bit of wishful thinking to be honest. If you live near some nice long roads with few interruptions and light traffic then you can get in a good training ride but that's pretty unlikely if you live anywhere in Tokyo except way out west. I ride on the Arakawa 2 to 4 mornings a week for an hour between 6 am and 7 am and it's great because there are very few people around and I can really get spinning without worrying that I'll hit anyone. If I were riding on the roads near my apartment then there's just no way I'd be able to get my heart rate up with all the traffic lights and crossings and slow moving cars. Granted I'm not bagging many KOMs and I'm certainly not going 60 kph but I do feel safe riding flat out, which I wouldn't on my local roads. There's great visibility, lots of room for avoiding others and not much cross traffic.

I also sometimes ride on the Arakawa on the weekends when the path is much busier with kids at sports practice and families running around. I don't bother trying to ride flat out because I know I'll have to slow down at various points to let people pass. Of course, there are some people who will always take too many risks and won't ride cautiously in that kind of situation, but what makes you think that that type of person would be any safer riding fast on the road in a busy city like Tokyo?
 
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leicaman

Maximum Pace
Sep 20, 2012
2,475
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Asakadai, Saitama
#12
@leicaman Now? I never ride the cycling paths in Saitama and my experience was typically Omiya north towards Ogose and Ogawa areas and beyond. I presume that you usually cycle on the path at a good clip and are not a young parent with children learning to ride their bikes on the paths. nor are you a geriatric with slow reactions, poor hearing and a slightly different perspective on speed. I'm not yet there myself but have seen a former racer now flinch when a quicker than himself bike gets within two meters of him. I know you run as well but again your perspective is different from most users who are complaining. Perhaps down river the greater density of people means more problems.
Just because your peer group aren't being dorks it doesn't mean there aren't a few dorks tarnishing the image of road cyclists.
Re: pros getting Strava segments on the cycling path, I think you just illustrated the problem and as sponsored riders they need their butts kicked by team management. Wouldn't take much for a journo to link their names and strava results to a story about "trouble". Not sure that's the kind of publicity corporations want.

I know up near Kawajima there are bugger all people but this is nuts.
https://www.strava.com/segments/3438988
21,000 times this stretch has been ridden flat out and a bunch of times at max speeds faster than cars are legally allowed to go on any road except expressways. Can you really seriously claim there is no problem riding that path at over 60 kmph? Pro or not, the guys a moron.

I still think cyclists training should be out on the roads and making the roads safer for everyone with their presence. as always YMMV
Just as I thought, you don’t ever ride down that way. I have ridden on the tamagawa and tonegawa where the cycle path is pretty much one metre wide. Cyclists who ride down there at speed and don’t slow down for other users are d1cks but from my experience on the Arakawa, I have never seen this kind of thing happen. The area that I ride on is as wide as a major Japanese road with visibility as far as the eye can see. The number of people I see on my morning ride is so low that even a New Zealander could count that high 😜. Those that I do see are usually walking their dogs in the middle of baseball fields, 100m from the “path”.

I agree that there are a few idiotic road cyclists out there but when you state “ a lot of road cyclists have a sense of entitlement on the cycle paths” . That’s not what I’ve experienced. Just the other week I was riding much further south than I usually do. It was a weekend and the area was pretty busy. Any time I came upon other users, all I saw was cyclists slowing way down and giving people the widest berth they could.

Regarding that strava segment and the KOM on it, you do realise that all those KOM’s on the river are taken when typhoons hit, yeah? I would bet my left nut that no kids or geriatrics were pottering around the area at that time. I noticed that one of TCC’s own is 3rd on that segment (I’m sure that’s why you chose it, to stir things up a bit).

It would be interesting to compare fatalities of other users caused by road cyclists on cycle paths to fatalities of cyclists caused by other road users on roads. I can’t see any harm in road cyclists riding at a whopping 30-40kph when conditions allow it. I’m guessing you’ve never had a life threatening injury from a collision with another vehicle when on your bike. I have a few good friends who have. You would be a much braver man than I to tell them to their faces that they should be riding on the roads.
 
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kiwisimon

Maximum Pace
Dec 14, 2006
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#14
what makes you think that that type of person would be any safer riding fast on the road in a busy city like Tokyo?
Two words: Self preservation.

Just as I thought, you don’t ever ride down that way. I have ridden on the tamagawa and tonegawa where the cycle path is pretty much one metre wide. Cyclists who ride down there at speed and don’t slow down for other users are d1cks but from my experience on the Arakawa, I have never seen this kind of thing happen. The area that I ride on is as wide as a major Japanese road with visibility as far as the eye can see. The number of people I see on my morning ride is so low that even a New Zealander could count that high 😜. Those that I do see are usually walking their dogs in the middle of baseball fields, 100m from the “path”..
we only have 11 fingers and 8 toes.

.
I agree that there are a few idiotic road cyclists out there but when you state “ a lot of road cyclists have a sense of entitlement on the cycle paths” . That’s not what I’ve experienced. Just the other week I was riding much further south than I usually do. It was a weekend and the area was pretty busy. Any time I came upon other users, all I saw was cyclists slowing way down and giving people the widest berth they could..
Things may have improved then. My historic experiences were a fair number of d!cks in lycra. It's the old story a few rotten apples spoiling the barrel.

Regarding that strava segment and the KOM on it, you do realise that all those KOM’s on the river are taken when typhoons hit, yeah? I would bet my left nut that no kids or geriatrics were pottering around the area at that time. I noticed that one of TCC’s own is 3rd on that segment (I’m sure that’s why you chose it, to stir things up a bit).
stir things up, never. I had figured there were massive tailwinds at work.

It would be interesting to compare fatalities of other users caused by road cyclists on cycle paths to fatalities of cyclists caused by other road users on roads. I can’t see any harm in road cyclists riding at a whopping 30-40kph when conditions allow it. I’m guessing you’ve never had a life threatening injury from a collision with another vehicle when on your bike. I have a few good friends who have. You would be a much braver man than I to tell them to their faces that they should be riding on the roads.
Life threatening no, a few A and E visits yes. I've also had close friends in traffic accidents but they were in cars and on motorbikes but my whole point was perceptions are the narrative that get told. I don't think statistics for cycling roads would be kept as they aren't part of the national road network. And thus are much more laissez faire? I remember the 2okmph signs hat appeared a few years ago, not official or enforceable i think. cheers
 

GrantT

Maximum Pace
Oct 2, 2012
1,595
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Setagaya
#15
As road cyclists, we have to remember the layman is unable to distinguish the road cyclist from the triathlete. Triathlete bicycles do not come with brakes, or with riders willing to use them, which leads me to believe 100% of negative perceptions are a result of interactions with these types.
 
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theBlob

Bokeh master
Sep 28, 2011
2,863
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#16
I’ve ridden Arakawa extensively for the last 6 years. Often at or around 35-40km/hr. In all that time I have only had one near accident. An old idiot who decided to take a sudden turn from one side of the path to the other without even the slightest glance around him. During the same period with a much smaller period of time spent on public roads. I have had numerous close calls with cars, bicycles and pedestrians. All of whom failed to look and wait effectively, thus putting me/us in harms way. The only accident I have had was caused by a lady on a mamachari coming around a blind corner from a one way street on the wrong side of the road.
Anyone who thinks riding on the road is safer or somehow better is an imbecile or someone with no real world experience.

Anyone who scatters nails on a path to cause flats for whatever reason is an poor sad sack, who needs his head checked.

And the cyclist who uses this incident to try and establish some sort of moral high ground for himself when he knows nothing of the conditions is well... his comments can speak for themselves.
 

theBlob

Bokeh master
Sep 28, 2011
2,863
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#18
No, none of the above.

Your joy at being the “site grandma” is almost too much to take. Just as your hypothethesizing about the demise of pro cyclists out for a hammer session written up with a kind glee, the same kind of glee I imagine the rabid nail seeder must have had when imagining about his victims getting what they deserve.

Mate, the discussion is about Arakawa. A river path you admit almost zero experience with, yet here you are proselytizing in true matriarch style about how everyone should be behaving according to you.

So let me reiterate, after 50000km on Arakawa going as fast as I feel like, with a nice tail wind, frequently up near 50. Only one single close incident....

Get it now?
 
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thomas

The Crank Engine
Nov 1, 2005
1,799
203
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多摩区
#19
Gentlemen, let’s keep this discussion civil please. I guess we all agree that it’s idiotic to throw nails on a heavily frequented bicycle road, thereby putting not only cyclists but also pedestrians and pets at risk. I remember @WhiteGiant fell victim to a similar incident several years ago, further down the Arakawa.

I assume there must have been a few bicycle-related accidents in the past. When I was living in Tokyo I used to ride the Arakawa 4-5 times a week. Sometimes they would distribute leaflets such as this to all cyclists:

full


They had coppers with them and forced each cyclist to stop and listen to their sermon.

I invite anyone who laments the perils of the Arakawa bicycle path to try the Tamagawa at the weekend... :p
 

kiwisimon

Maximum Pace
Dec 14, 2006
2,634
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#20
http://www.ktr.mlit.go.jp/kisha/arage_00000218.html
It seems as though the managing authority is going to rip up some areas of asphalt and replace them with loose stones designed to discourage cyclists. Higher up the path is a different matter. They are citing a number of collisions between cyclists and pedestrians.

Your joy at being the “site grandma” is almost too much to take. Just as your hypothethesizing about the demise of pro cyclists out for a hammer session written up with a kind glee, the same kind of glee I imagine the rabid nail seeder must have had when imagining about his victims getting what they deserve.
Glee? It will only take one accident. Remember when that moron in Tokyo riding a track bike hit and killed the old fella and the crack down the cops went on? So no it's not glee just a heads up. My first sentence was not condoning the vandalism.

Mate, the discussion is about Arakawa. A river path you admit almost zero experience with, yet here you are proselytizing in true matriarch style about how everyone should be behaving according to you.
Mate, I never said that. I have ridden the Arakawa since the early 1990s. Down where the vandalism I have only been a few times and obviously recently I have never ridden the path. Calm the farm mate.

So let me reiterate, after 50000km on Arakawa going as fast as I feel like, with a nice tail wind, frequently up near 50. Only one single close incident....

Get it now?
Absolutely, you like going fast downwind on a flat track and haven't had a prang yet. Well done.