Alfine 8 Speed Hub Service

kiwisimon

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Dec 14, 2006
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What proof do I have it is any better?

Time for some Google work I guess....:rolleyes:
You want better, one word Rohloff. Maybe you can sell your testes to someone to finance the purchase, the hub purchase would be a deductable at tax time. Good luck mate!
 

StuInTokyo

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Dec 3, 2010
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You want better, one word Rohloff. Maybe you can sell your testes to someone to finance the purchase, the hub purchase would be a deductable at tax time. Good luck mate!
Yeah the Rohloff hub would be wonderful, but at about $1800 or more, not in the cards :(


After a LOT of futzing around, I got the darn thing together....


.... no extra parts either :rolleyes:



Now what I'm going to do is set up the camera and take a bunch of pics and maybe some video showing how this thing goes together, it is like a puzzle, and it can only be put together one way, there are no diagrams or pics that I can find the show it in pieces, so to stuff up Mr. Shimano I'm going to document it. The parts that wore out the worst are the six pins I showed before that hold the six planetary gears together, they have needle bearings on them and I just do not understand how the shafts wore so badly, but the needle bearings are still OK :confused: I really think that if I had six new better quality shafts, the whole unit would last longer, that or it would wear some other parts out quicker...?

It really sucks that these six little shafts, that cost maybe a buck each wore so badly, and that Mr. Shimano does not offer them for sale. I'm going to mike them later and see the actual size, I think they might be right on 6mm, if so, it should not be that hard to get some quality shafts made. the other part the has weird wear on it, the thick washer with a key on it, well, that I'm not so sure of, making one of those out of better quality steel might be harder.

I will say this, if the $250 Shimano hub lasts only 3000Km then over time the Rohloff hub that lasts a LOT longer for $1800 makes a lot of sense.

I think that Sarah Outen's bike has done 18,000 Km so her hub is 10 cents a kilometer and still going strong, my hub is 12 cents a kilometer and done for, but like I said, an $1800 outlay is just simply NOT in the cards right now, I hope that with much more frequent lubrication of the new parts, I'll get better mileage out of what I have.

Ugh 2:30AM I need sleep....
 

StuInTokyo

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Dec 3, 2010
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Great work and yes for the greater cycling world please do document the tear down and rebuild. Would come and hold the camera for you if I lived closer.





http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rohloff-Speedhub-14-Speeds-16t-Cog-Silver-QR-/400275247648?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d32439220

about 12万。Now do the math.
That is a great deal! :eek:

I think that if a second unit fails, then I'll have to go that route, and I'll have an argument for it, but right now, I have to fix this one and get on with it.

Thanks for the link, and the offer to help document this problem.

Cheers!
 

AlanW

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Jan 30, 2007
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Stu,
You sure do have some mad skillz (tm) on that hub :pray:

It's definitely weird that the shafts carrying the needle bearings wore out. Maybe the needle bearings were jamming under load and rotating on the shaft rather than acting as a proper bearing.

From what I have read Shimano abandoned the "greased" design and moved to an oil bath design for the newer Alfine 11 speed hub. Hopefully an oil change would be easier than a strip-down!
Interesing stuff. I'm tempted to get a hub geared MTB as a winter bike if I return to muddy Scotland in the future.
 

snoogly

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Oct 14, 2007
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Speedhubs from SJS Cycles in UK run at around £1000. Just make sure you get your head around all the different options before you take the plunge!
 

StuInTokyo

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Dec 3, 2010
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I got it all back together and working!! :D

I did not wish to wait for the new #4 part the Carrier Unit to arrive, they said it was in stock at Shimano, and would not take too long, but that could be a week for all I know, so I put it all back together, gave it an oil bath, greased up the bearings and it is working fine. Those planetary gear shafts are surely worn, bad, but I hope it will last until I get the new carrier unit.

The oil bath will become a common event, as I want to try to make the new unit last.

I took a lot of pics, and I've taken the carrier unit apart and put it back together a bunch of times now, I have the assembly order down pat, it is complex!


Taking an oil bath!


No leftover parts either :D

Works great, I just did some deliveries.

I know that those shafts on the planetary gears are worn, and they will not heal themselves, so this is a temp fix, but the new parts should be here this week, I hope.

Here is a pic of one of the shafts that I measured....

... I did all six and they were all the same on the unworn part of the shaft, on both ends, so I know that is the size.

I wonder where I would go to get some new shafts made up?

Once I get the new Carrier unit, and install it, after a quick oil bath, I'm going to look into getting new better quality shafts made up, i mean, why not?

I'm also hoping to open a dialoge with Shimano, I won't go to them demanding anything in the way of free stuff, or warranty work, just asking some questions, and showing them my problem to see what they say, who knows...?

Now I have to write up the whole deal with pics and in order so I can post it somewhere to help the next guy.

Cheers!
 

StuInTokyo

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Dec 3, 2010
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I put all of my pics up on PB >> HERE <<

I can also tell you that the "Special Internal Hub Shimano Oil" certainly smells a LOT like ATF :D
 

StuInTokyo

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Dec 3, 2010
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Love all this stuff mate.

Thanks for posting!
I'm glad someone it enjoying it :D

I did a few heavy deliveries and everything seems fine, I'd say it shifts much better now too.

Y's road called and they have my part in, I could not get down there today, so I'll go tomorrow, then I'll swap the new part in, and start working on getting some replacement shafts for the old unit.

Cheers!
 

GSAstuto

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Oct 11, 2009
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www.roadfixie.com
I think we should look into getting some good ol USA machining done ... like this . http://www.tricktitanium.com/titanium-wrist-pin The concept is the same - you are putting alot of static loading onto a straight surface. Obivously Shimano completely underengineered the shafts.
 

StuInTokyo

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Dec 3, 2010
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I think we should look into getting some good ol USA machining done ... like this . http://www.tricktitanium.com/titanium-wrist-pin The concept is the same - you are putting alot of static loading onto a straight surface. Obivously Shimano completely underengineered the shafts.
That is exactly the kind of thing I need done Tim.

I think that the steel was not as good as it could have been, the grease as a lube failed, and I'm using the hub well past it's design specs :rolleyes:

I got the new parts, or the new unit today, 10,458 yen. :eek:uch:

The new carrier unit is filled with grease, it will be cleaned, then it will be disassembled the spanking new shafts will be checked for size all six of them. Then I'll put it back together, all nice and clean, and add it to the original parts, taking off the used carrier unit, this new hub internal set will then be oil bathed and hopefully the new set up will last longer. I will then take it apart after a month clean it and see how it is holding up. In the mean time, I'll try to find someone to make me up six new shafts that will be of better quality.

Now the kicker, before I ordered the new carrier unit, I went down to the Y's B2 shop and looked for the Alfine 8 Hub wheels sets they have now and then, they did not have any in stock. Today, I go down there and they have several built up wheels hanging form the ceiling, all the newer version of the Alfine 8 hub that only seem to come on the Alfine wheel set WH-S500-V-8D...? This newer (?) hub has straight pull spokes, not the usual hooked spokes. Looking at the parts diagram, some parts are the same, like the #4 carrier units, but some are different. Anyway, Y's B2 now has several of the 700C wheels sets for 50% off, that is 15,400 yen or there about. It is tempting to buy one of these wheels and keep it just in case. I'd have to get a new 32 hole 26" rim and spokes etc, so it would not be as cheap as the route I'm taking but...?

I'm really curious about the newer Alfine hub, I wonder what they have done differently to it, and why you can only buy it as part of a wheel set, and not just the hub?

The beat goes on....
 

GSAstuto

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Stu - the issue with the 15,000 yen versions at Y's is they are only 24h - not 32. And getting a 24h MTB rim seems to be a challenge - not many choices. We could use a 32h rim and just 24holes - but , it's not so perfect a way to do it. Also - the straightpull spokes need to line up with the corresponding rim drilling.
 

onm

Sep 2, 2009
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Stu, the photos you made of the whole process are amazing!!

Thanks so much!

WOW!
 

m o b

Speeding Up
Jun 22, 2008
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cyclitis.wordpress.com
More Photos of the Alfine Di2 availabe in September and some comments (although in German). I think this is great as this is the first time that racing handle bars, STI levers and internal gears can be combined with one bike. I was tempted to built a bike with a Rohloff speedhub but now I will wait for the Alfine first. I hope that Shimano will have versions for 135mm and 130mm rear stays so that ligher racing frames can also be used and not only MTB, Trekking and Commuters.
In any case a brilliant move from Shimano not to upgrade 105 to Di2, but to introduce electronic shifring into the main market.
 

FarEast

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I would have to disagree actually - would rather they kept the 105 with a racing heritage rather than going off in a different direction. I think they should have gone the same route with 105 as they did Ultegra and DA and then used this systen for SORA and Taigra.