2nd Saitama Cycling Time Trial April 27

Phil

Maximum Pace
#1
Just posting this to here to avoid any more hijacking of the Sado ride thread...

Race: 2nd Saitama Cycling Time Trial
Date: April 27
Place: Kazo City, Saitama

For what it's worth, here's the linky (containing only link to a PDF page of dense Japanese text...)

http://www.saitama-cf.com/information/20080427.html

Basically, a flat TT on a closed road (I think). 10 km for most solo classes, though higher classes can also try 20 km. Official JCRC race (http://www.jcrc-net.jp/).

One of the few opportunities in Japan to try a time trial that doesn't go uphill the whole way.
 
Jan 14, 2007
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japanichiban.com
#2
1位 フィリップ ギボン  15分02秒366

:eek:

sugeeeeeee!

That is excellent...........a guy in our team who is a bit of a TT specialist came 3rd about 12 seconds behind you..... Phil..... is this true?????

Is that you??????????  Based on that result you should have no problem in JCRC C grade (possibly B or A grade races-)

:eek:

Looks like you revved up to 40kph and kept it there the whole way....

Reporto please............

We had a 9th place in the 20km TT as well....
 

Phil

Maximum Pace
#3
Yeah, thanks Pete. Sorry for delayed report, but can confirm 1st in my class, with a ornate plastic trophy to prove it. Gotta love those flat courses :) Just got back from Nikko* with family, so will post proper report tomorrow, hopefully with a pic or two.

(* Which looks like climber's heaven if you can manage to go there some time other than weekends/holidays/peak seasons etc. Serious climbs up to and beyond the lakes...)
 

Phil

Maximum Pace
#4
Better late than never...

Le Report

Time trial went great, both as an event and for me personally. It was held on a closed construction road built within the levees of the Tone River, in a rural area near Kazo City. It was a superb location for a time trial. The road was very smooth, flat and new, and even had a dotted white line to separate the outgoing and incoming traffic.

There were 10km and 20km races, solo and team (three riders per team, time based on second rider's finish). The course was a simple out-and-back, with a traffic cone we circled at the turnaround, and it was well patrolled by marshals/referees. Drove through heavy rain in Tokyo to get there, but it was dry in Saitama and it got sunnier and sunnier as the day progressed. There was a gusty tailwind out, headwind back, but it was fairly mild and appeared to die down as the day progressed.

I'd guesstimate there were 200 or so racers or so, plus friends/family etc. A fair few carbon disk wheels and TT bikes, but also lots of plain road bikes, with or without aero clipons.

Some pictures here:

http://www.jcrc-net.jp/kekka08/08saitt/html-1/index.htm
http://www.jcrc-net.jp/kekka08/08saitt/html-2/index.htm
http://www.jcrc-net.jp/kekka08/08saitt/html-3/index.htm

(Pete, I saw a couple of your teammates, including of course the guy in my division who came in third. Watched the Semas team race, too, although only one rider had his jersey on. The team TTs were fun to watch. As I said after Motegi, I'd love for TCC to have a go at it some day.)

The Race

I was in the 2C Class (JCRC F,X equivalency) 10km solo, which was just a bit longer than Motegi time trial. For me, time trialling is two parts chasing numbers and one part concentration. In my case, I was tracking the bpm closely. Almost immediately after the start I was up to 175-176 bpm; this gave me a sustainable 40-42 km/hr with the gentle outgoing tailwind. I was chasing down my "15-second man" (we were sent off at 15s intervals) and had to restrain myself from trying to close the gap too fast. Once I started to hit 177/178 bpm, the work started to feel a lot harder; preferring to go a little too slow but not blow up than go too hard and die on the return leg into the wind, I consciously eased back (relatively--I was still puffing like crazy!) With 1.5 km remaining there was no longer any need to save energy, and I ramped up the effort for the final push.

Crossed the line in 0:15:02.366 at 39.9 km/hr average. This was good enough for 1st in the 2-C class, and would have got me 10th in 2-B (C,D and E equivalency). So very pleased with the results. Depending on how the riding goes this year, next year I'll be going for a podium in 2-B or even having a crack at the 3-B 20km class.

Results are here:

http://www.jcrc-net.jp/kekka08/08saitt/st08m1.html

Other results linked to from here:

http://www.jcrc-net.jp/kekka08/08saitt/r08saitt.html

Going to celebrate by taking a break from racing for a few weeks and try to get back into just riding for the heck of it :)
 

Philip

Speeding Up
Feb 15, 2007
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#5
Congratulations!!!

Hi Phil,

Superb performance. You deserve the result after all the training you have completed.

How much pain were you feeling at the 8km point? Did you ride the whole 10km in the drops? What is your maximum heart rate?

Cheers,

Philip
 

chazzer

Speeding Up
Nov 23, 2006
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#7
Congratulations !

Great result Phil !

It was a pleasure doing the airport loop with you a couple of months ago and now we can see the benefit of that. This is an excellent result and justifies all the hard work you have put in.

Charles
 

Phil

Maximum Pace
#8
Cheers guys...much credit must go to all the TCC ride and race reports here that provide continued inspiration, not to mention those high-paced group rides and West kanto climbs that provide the hurt :)

How much pain were you feeling at the 8km point? Did you ride the whole 10km in the drops? What is your maximum heart rate?
- Rode in the aero bars for the whole distance, apart from the initial start and turnaround. Think there are a few more watts to be found in my position, by bringng the bars down to the top of the head tube and maybe extending them forward. (I'm still too high at the front.)

- Max HR was 178, which was probably too low.

- I honestly don't remember feeling much pain at all; don't know if that means I wasn't trying hard enough or if the adrenaline of the competition was drowning out the signals. I'm having a hard time finding this line actually; the fear of blowing up is perhaps stopping me from pushing harder. I need a race where I DO blow up and thereby find my limit. Maybe time for one of these hill climb thingies of which you guys are so fond... :)
 

Philip

Speeding Up
Feb 15, 2007
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Setagaya
#9
Phil . . .

Rode in the aero bars for the whole distance, apart from the initial start and turnaround. Think there are a few more watts to be found in my position, by bringng the bars down to the top of the head tube and maybe extending them forward. (I'm still too high at the front.)
The only real solution to this is to buy a TT bike - maybe a P3 ;)

Max HR was 178, which was probably too low.
Sorry Phil - I meant your Maximum Possible Heart Rate (not during the race). What is the highest HR you have ever experienced? This would give some indication of how hard you were working and how close you were to blowing-up.

Cheers,

Philip
 

Phil

Maximum Pace
#10
Sorry Phil - I meant your Maximum Possible Heart Rate (not during the race).
Ah, right. Apologies are mine. (Note to self: Re-learn semantic implications of the use of "is" and "was" in sentence.)

Answer is the same, though: 178 :) The thing is, I've only had the heart rate thingy for a few months. I really need to do some tests and find my ranges. I recorded a low of 42 bpm one morning soon after I got it, but at the high end have never got it above 170 except in competition. Probably should bring it along to the next Mikuni climb--that'll uncover my max rate fairly pronto, I should imagine. :warau:
 
Jan 14, 2007
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japanichiban.com
#11
How did you warm up Phil?
I imagine 90% use the rollers/stationaries.... it was a bit cold in the morning?
Easy to warm up?

With wind...if it's a tail my hefty back sail is upright....in a headwind I can't really make my rotund shape aerodynamic no matter what angle I take...
Give me a TT with a tailwind.....give me a holiday with a head wind.....
 

Philip

Speeding Up
Feb 15, 2007
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Setagaya
#12
Try this . . .

If your maximum HR is 178 and you spent 10km at 178bpm then you should have died of a heart attack around the 3km point.

Take a look at the calculator at the bottom on this web page (see link below) - you have all the information you need to estimate your maximum HR. Then look at the zones at the top of the page to see how close you were to maximum sustainable effort (somewhere between 80-90%).

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/hrm1.htm

This is a great website for training information & sports science.

Cheers,

Philip
 
Jan 14, 2007
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japanichiban.com
#13
If your maximum HR is 178 and you spent 10km at 178bpm then you should have died of a heart attack around the 3km point.

Take a look at the calculator at the bottom on this web page (see link below) - you have all the information you need to estimate your maximum HR. Then look at the zones at the top of the page to see how close you were to maximum sustainable effort (somewhere between 80-90%).

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/hrm1.htm

This is a great website for training information & sports science.

Cheers,

Philip
My max is 194 so far. (220-age44 however is much less...at 176.)
I start a race usually with a warm up and at the start line my hr is hovering around 110bpm. It quickly gets up over 160bpm. If it's a 20km criterium or even shorter it may hit 178 in the 1st km. I can go at 178bpm for about 20kms with no problem at all. I try and keep my rate at 168 or lower (not puffing) but sometimes you have no choice but to try and hang on to the pack. In a TT though it's mind over matter. If you train a lot some people prefer not to look at their HRM as it can make you go slower when you could actually be going a lot faster.

When I'm over 180bpm I know I either have to slow down or sprint for the finish line..... If I'm in the final sprint I go over 190 and have hit 193 & 194 on the finish line in 2 races so far. I wouldn't be surprised if I can actually get up over 200. One of my friends who is 42 hit 207 in a race 3 weeks ago...

Don't base your max on those rule of thumb calculations. Find a 5km or more 9% or more hill and go as hard as you can till you can't get your heart rate any higher. (you won't die). (Warm up 1st of course).

Our weekly club sprints of 12km along the Edo-river always get me over 180bpm...

Heavy breathing in a race may also be a sign of nerves rather than your body actually needing all that oxygen. I tend to be a heavy breather as I was taught how to breath for rugby and running as a young boy. I just instinctively start breathing heavily due to that and race nerves. If I'm concious of my breathing though I can go quite hard without having to gasp or puff. I also spent a lot of time on the roller watching how hard I could go at certain heart rates and when I can talk normally, breath normally or when I'm starting to puff. (need to re-do all that soon and see how my current fitness is).
 

Phil

Maximum Pace
#14
Haha, between this and the gearing thread, it's turned into Science Week at TCC...

Warming up:
Not quite as much as I wanted. We could ride the course up to 9 AM (I went at 9:33), so I did about 2/3 of the course then. After that there was time for a couple of sprints up the levee behind the start line. Finished the prep with a can of legal doping (Georgia MAX).

Re: heart rate, thanks guys for the links and detailed info. I plugged my numbers into Philip's calculator and got:

Resting: 42 (measured)
Max: 184
Working: 142

So, according to the site, I was running mostly at 94% of max and hit 96% at the end. That is higher than I thought (and felt), but again I'm still feeling these limits out. I still think I can realize more speed through greater effort. I'm going to try a hill test soon and see if I can get over 184.

My ultimate TT goal is the sub-hour 40k, but I don't think 94% is doable for an hour (or is it?). Philip, what kind of bpm do you try to maintain on the bike and run portions of your triathlons, or do you avoid the HRM like Pete describes?
 

WhiteGiant

Maximum Pace
Nov 4, 2006
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Kita-Ueno
#15
Go Phil!

Phil,
It seems like I’m the last one to congratulate you on your WIN!
Well done, buddy! That must feel so good, eh!:happy1:
Personally, I can’t ride on the flats like you, and our other “huge-thighed-compatriots”… I can only rely on a nimble frame vs. Power/Weight ratios.
ie. Max for me on a flat course is around 36km/h! Your 42km/h puts me to shame in that class.
Well done, and a big CONGRATULATIONS :no1:

As for “heart-rate” comparisons, I’ve not much left to offer except to say;
(As Philip mentioned) Find your absolute maximum – I think one method is to ride similar to a time-trial for 5-7km (8-12mins) and then jump up two gears & SPRINT with everything you have left for the last 1km– That should come close.
And then find your “maximum sustainable” HR over whatever distance you wish to ride – When you get in that range, a change of 3bpm can make all the difference between “hard, but do-able” & “I’m gonna have a heart-attack-painful”
Hope that makes sense.

Look forward to riding with you again soon!
Rubber Down! Travis